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Cyber Warfare/Espionage... discuss
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    I've been taking an interest in this over the past few years.... its a mental subject... and to be blunt. Every major nation on earth is at it like topsy.

    An example today, Iranian oil company under attack: http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107125967

    Other more famous examples being Stuxnet, a US/Israel attack on Iran's Nuclear programme:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9305704/Barack-Obama-ordered-Stuxnet-cyber-attack-on-Iran.html

    And Flame and Gauss, spying and data stealing viruses that was targeted at the banking networks of the middle east. Discovered...having been undetected in the wild for around two years... about a week or two before the US came out and ordered Standard Chartered to pay 320 million for wire stripping transactions in Iran: http://rt.com/news/flame-virus-cyber-war-536/


    We are pretty decent at this sort of thing ourselves. Mr Hague the other day not wanting to explain how he'd seen evidence that the Assad regime was planning on using chemical weapons against Syria's own people, for example...and the US and the UK issuing a warning.

    The US don't have it all their own way either. With malware found on US drone planes that they... can't get rid of, don't know how it gets onto their systems and that they think is benign....but 'don't know':http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/keylogger-infects-us-unmanned-drone-fighter-planes-41866


    This is scary stuff... discuss.
  • tonyd
    Posts: 2,850
    Have you read about Gary McKinnon?
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    Yes, really please he didn't get extradited.

    This subject is very poorly understood by those in power....

    Problem: Military and NASA systems broken into by mentally ill person looking for evidence of state involvement in suppression of information relating to UFO's.


    Option one: Take disciplinary action against staff responsible for securing said computer systems. Maybe invest in better security measures and/or staff to better protect national interest.

    Option two: Try and put the mentally ill person in jail for the rest of his life and pretend everything else is OK.


    US selects option two.....because, after all, criminals, nation states and thieves know how to do this stuff silently and secretly...thats fine, what we don't hear about doesn't hurt us...its the mental people and kids who can do sort of thing as a recreational hobby that make governments look bad...and they need locking up for it.
  • tonyd
    Posts: 2,850
    Did you see the lies the yanks made up? Millions of dollars of damage to their computers to try and justify extradition and other nonsense. He even said there was russian and chinese hackers crawling inside that wide open nasa network which was no doubt both on behalf of both governments.

    The yanks were caught with their pants down and because they can't say or do anything to china and the russians they wanted McKinnon as the fall guy. Fair do's to the tories like for standing up to the yanks. (never thought I'd type that abar them)
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-10/25/mikko-hypponen-cyberwar

    F-Secure's MikkoHypponen talk on cyber warfare
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044
    tonyd said:

    Did you see the lies the yanks made up? Millions of dollars of damage to their computers to try and justify extradition and other nonsense. He even said there was russian and chinese hackers crawling inside that wide open nasa network which was no doubt both on behalf of both governments.


    The yanks were caught with their pants down and because they can't say or do anything to china and the russians they wanted McKinnon as the fall guy. Fair do's to the tories like for standing up to the yanks. (never thought I'd type that abar them)

    -----------------



    The level of financial damage/costs is a strange one and pretty easy to exaggerate. Plus, if you were a senior US official and didn't have a clue what was going on you'd ask a company like Booz Allen who'd tell you it will cost 3 million dollars to investigate conclusively. Its not hard to come up with some shocking figures in this industry.

    Me to, I was surprised and pleased. Theresa May of all people, too!


  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    TED talk by Ralph Langer on the Stuxnet weapon: http://www.ted.com/talks/ralph_langner_cracking_stuxnet_a_21st_century_cyberweapon.html


  • tonyd
    Posts: 2,850
    Will read through the posted links later Humphrey 
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044
    Gauss: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/09/cybersecurity-gauss-idINL2E8J92YD20120809

    Which although it is fairly clear what it was doing....also came with an as yet still encrypted payload:

    http://www.technewsdaily.com/8010-gauss-malware-decryption.html

    So... there is probably a nation state or two out there that have broken its encryption by now and may understand the exact nature of what, most likely the US, was doing or trying to attack.

    While the private sector, actively and publicly encourages anyone who wants to try and break the encryption (its only a matter of time, perhaps 6/8 months from now at the latest) to have a go: https://www.securelist.com/en/blog/208193781/The_Mystery_of_the_Encrypted_Gauss_Payload


  • jasonle41
    Posts: 1,519
    alright tc?

    i read this thread at approx 5:30pm, nearly 2 hours later, kin ell, interesting stuff like.

    Interesting, that after all the news on the Gauss threat back in August when Kaspersky was asking people to help them try and crack the encryption, then a week later this....... http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2012/08/20/u-s-seizes-150-million-in-alleged-hezbollah-linked-cash/

  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044
    jasonle41 said:

    alright tc?

    i read this thread at approx 5:30pm, nearly 2 hours later, kin ell, interesting stuff like.

    Interesting, that after all the news on the Gauss threat back in August when Kaspersky was asking people to help them try and crack the encryption, then a week later this....... http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2012/08/20/u-s-seizes-150-million-in-alleged-hezbollah-linked-cash/


    -----------------



    Hi Jason....I'm fine thanks, hows you?

    When you add up all the banks and other thinks the US have "discovered" resently it does amount to a pretty penny. But probably not worth quite as much as having the malware out there doing its job undetected.

    If you look at the Stuxnet one it was found by a tiny little Russian software company. Russia being the country furnishing Iran with all its nuclear assistance.


    another Mikko vid worth watching: http://www.ted.com/talks/mikko_hypponen_three_types_of_online_attack.html


  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    Disturbing development but one which you'd imagine has been played out behind closed doors of corporate companies: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/05/virginia_medical_records_extortion/

    Theft of medical records, deleted originals and backups....encypt the stolen information and demand 10 million aussie dollars.

    There is going to be much more of this.
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    This is a fairly long vid... but I think it does offer up the strange reality of this situation.

    This guy is the man that microsoft turns to....when they need to find out what happened to their software after a government has attacked a nuclear facility using 4 zero day vulnerabilities in microsofts software....a nutty, swearing, porn_loving, Chinese guy who says 'bla bla bla' a lot.




  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    Actually Tony... its good to see that McKinnon will face no charges what so ever over here too!

    What do you make of Private Bradley Manning?
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044


    And the latest.... looks to be Chinese... although it is suggested that it isn't state sponsored...

    Red October: http://www.securelist.com/en/blog/785/The_Red_October_Campaign_An_Advanced_Cyber_Espionage_Network_Targeting_Diplomatic_and_Government_Agencies
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044

    You may remember William Hague's recent claims that Syria intended to use chemical weapons against its own people...

    Erm....  Anonymous hacked emails.... turns up UK contractor being offered silly amount of cash from Qatar to stage, washington approved, false flag chemical weapons stash in Homs, Syria.....replete with Russian accents:

    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/is-uk-defense-contractor-planning.html


    http://cyberwarzone.com/anonymous-hacks-expose-syria-chemical-weapons-false-flag




  • IdiAminDaDa
    Posts: 7,516
    ToffeeCup said:


    I've been taking an interest in this over the past few years.... its a mental subject... and to be blunt. Every major nation on earth is at it like topsy.

    An example today, Iranian oil company under attack: http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107125967

    Other more famous examples being Stuxnet, a US/Israel attack on Iran's Nuclear programme:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9305704/Barack-Obama-ordered-Stuxnet-cyber-attack-on-Iran.html

    And Flame and Gauss, spying and data stealing viruses that was targeted at the banking networks of the middle east. Discovered...having been undetected in the wild for around two years... about a week or two before the US came out and ordered Standard Chartered to pay 320 million for wire stripping transactions in Iran: http://rt.com/news/flame-virus-cyber-war-536/


    We are pretty decent at this sort of thing ourselves. Mr Hague the other day not wanting to explain how he'd seen evidence that the Assad regime was planning on using chemical weapons against Syria's own people, for example...and the US and the UK issuing a warning.

    The US don't have it all their own way either. With malware found on US drone planes that they... can't get rid of, don't know how it gets onto their systems and that they think is benign....but 'don't know':http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/keylogger-infects-us-unmanned-drone-fighter-planes-41866


    This is scary stuff... discuss.


    -----------------



    No' tryin' to be obtuse like mate, bu' where's the discussion point like?
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044
    IdiAminDaDa said:

    No' tryin' to be obtuse like mate, bu' where's the discussion point like?


    -----------------


    There should probably be more people discussing this stuff because it is now very much the way of the world. The US, China and Russia are all over each other like topsy. Israel are world leaders in this stuff...tellingly. And the UK aren't bad either.

    In addition there is the very real suggesting to say that we went to war with Iraq to prevent them from developing nuclear weapons. Stuxnet has delayed the Iranian nuclear programme by 2 years with virtually (couple of assassinated Iranian scientists) no lost of life.  It might be underhand, it might have let the genie out of the bottle but it has worked.

    And of that genie.... what happens when a terrorist group uses the tech. The source code for flame and stuxnet would be available to them, for a modest price... all the would need is different exploits and there are plenty of them on the open market...


    I suppose the point is there is a lot to discuss....and people aren't.... so I thought I'd do a thread on it to maybe get people talking about it......or not.







  • IdiAminDaDa
    Posts: 7,516
    ToffeeCup said:






    -----------------



    Fair enough mate...
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,044


    This probably sums it up fairly well: http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/39213808832/the-skill-and-complexity-of-stuxnet-and-flame-and-how
  • DoobieMonster
    Posts: 1,183
    Yo my mate vinnie talks some good stuff, think you might like this one TC.

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