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Mass over-reaction to the events of the last few weeks
  • briceybaby
    Posts: 194
    Hands up who didn't already know that we're skint? or that we need to sell to buy?
    it doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to figure that as soon as the club started posting losses before player trading, that the bank were eventually going to turn round and say ''look, get back in the black, and we will start extending your credit''.
    first off, I wouldn't trust the propaganda that blue union and the like, are churning out. They are a hopeful movement, trying to gain support at the clubs expense. they will take whatever info they can and make it sound bad.

    The fact is, we are 5m down a year. if you add up the yak and yobo's wage for the year, its 5m. now, I know the press thought that we needed to sell them both so we could sign N'zogbia but, the club never said they wanted him. the chances are that they wanted them both off the wage bill to keep us sweet with the banks.
    We make payments to the bank every month and, with us being 5m down from the year before (Bk said we have been 5m down every year for 9 years) and us being at our 'credit limit' we were no longer able to service the debt. so i think the banks said 'you owe us 5m and we want it' hence the pienaar and vaughn money went straight to them.

    that means that we still have a 45m overdraft, and if nothing changes this time next year, we will owe the banks 5m again. (80m turnover, 85 outgoing) which is why we need to get them two off the wage bill.

    the banks WILL NOT be calling in every penny we make from player sales because. why would they? they will make more money from us from all the interest we pay on the overdraft. once the wage bill is down, our debt or overdraft will again be serviceable. the banks will probably just keep more of an eye on our finances.

    so hypothetically, if say, arsenal signed jags and arteta for 28m (lol btw) that's 6.5m a year off the wage bill. we would already be back in the black because the yak and yobo would be off the bill. if we signed no-one with the 28m, our balance sheet at the end of the year would say
    ''80m income, 73.5m out'' and '108m including player trading'
    I think that the only reason the bank would maybe ask for the money, is if they thought we would get into more financial trouble but, we are way off that imo.

    sorry that was long winded, but I feel that its not as bad as what the press and the like are saying. when I first read the kenwright transcript I felt sick, like it was me that had just been handed a 5m bill from the bank. but when i read it again, it became clear that what billy boy was bleating on about, was not the fact that that banks are gonna shut us down, more that we cant get more investment to move forward.
  • tickets11
    Posts: 1,002
    and now the things your missing out.

    it was obvious we wanted nzogbia, even their chariman said there is a team that reall really wants him but havent got the moeny(that was us just incase you never knew), just like we wanted demba ba but lost out to newcastle.

    and the fact is it was all speculation, until kenright came out and said it himself through that meeting with the Blue union, that was when even the loyal kenright supporters lost a bit of respect for him.

    On top of this you are forgetting to add, even if yobo and yak do leave and we make that saving on wages, fellaini still has a contract to sign, he is currently one of the lowest earners in the first team, expect his wages to be at least doubled. and barkley who (probably this season) will be awarded a new contract, there was an article before saying he was on less then 5k a week at present.

    then we still need a striker before the window shut so theres more wages there.
    all of the money you think we will save will be spent elsewhere.

    moyes hasnt even got a "sell before you buy policy" any more, its a "sell before you buy and the first 5m goes towards the debts"
    even the promoted teams arent in it as bad as we are. and the reason we are in this mess is becuase of kenright hasnt been doing anything in the background working on how we can increase our revenue, while all of the teams who finished above us have.
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,455
    Good post lad.

    Couple of points:

    We haven't got shut of Yak or Yobo yet - and with Fernerbache having been thrown out of the Champs League yesterday, there's a real chance Yobo will now not be sold.

    Also, we didn't get Yobo or Yak off the wage bill for a year, just 6 months for Yak. Yobo for 9 months.

    Even if we did sell Arteta and Jags, yes it would be about £6 Million per year off the wage bill. But we'd certainly be looking to by 2 or 3 players and you're not taking into account their addition to the wage bill - which would probably add up to at least £4 Million a year! On top of that there's likely to be more new pay rises for the likes of Fellaini (if he signs)

    Also, the last set of accounts released don't include pay rises given to Arteta, Rodwell, Cahill, Jags, Baines etc when they all signed new deals in the last year or 16 months or so.

    On the plus side, we've had Vaughan off the wage bill - but he was only taking up about £1 Million a year anyway I'd guess.

    Then there's the £2.25 Million (I'm guessing but you get the point) or so that Pienaar would have been getting per year - and he's gone for 7 months now

    But I like the theme of your post.
    I'm bored with all this Blue Union bollox now and I've thought all along that they get too much attention.
    And I'm annoyed that as a football fan, I find myself spending more time looking at accounts and photocopys of charge sheets than I do actually watching football.
  • briceybaby
    Posts: 194
    call me the optimist but i think that the club knew they would never get N'zob. i think it was banded about to at least show the fans that we were at least looking.
    as for felli, hes on nearly 40k a week already, not including bonuses. hes hardly gonna get a contract for 80k a week and because of that, i suspect he wont sign and will leave at some point.
    we deffinately went for Ba but as soon as his wage demands became apparent, we backed out. again with barkley, he wont get a huge contract. when rodders, gosling and coleman got their first decent contracts, they were modest.
    as for the promoted teams, well they are all around 90m better off and yet they only seem to be signing cast offs. why? because there is a good chance they will go back down.
    and even if some money from transfers went to debts, then so what. i would rather use money to secure our finaces than be held to ransom by a player over a contract
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,164

    Plus Kenwright got a 1 million loan fee out of Leicester for the Yak.




  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,164
    briceybaby said:


    as for felli, hes on nearly 40k a week already, not including bonuses.



    Not sure thats right.

  • tickets11
    Posts: 1,002
    briceybaby said:

    call me the optimist but i think that the club knew they would never get N'zob. i think it was banded about to at least show the fans that we were at least looking.
    as for felli, hes on nearly 40k a week already, not including bonuses. hes hardly gonna get a contract for 80k a week and because of that, i suspect he wont sign and will leave at some point.
    we deffinately went for Ba but as soon as his wage demands became apparent, we backed out. again with barkley, he wont get a huge contract. when rodders, gosling and coleman got their first decent contracts, they were modest.
    as for the promoted teams, well they are all around 90m better off and yet they only seem to be signing cast offs. why? because there is a good chance they will go back down.
    and even if some money from transfers went to debts, then so what. i would rather use money to secure our finaces than be held to ransom by a player over a contract



    whats happened is moyes expected teams to come in for some of the top players. he was DEFINATELy expecting rodwell to leave but due to his poor form no one has come near him, and probably jags and baines aswell.

    but rodwell was his main bargaining chip, thats why moyes came out and said he want to get things done early this transfer window, only no bids came in for any of our players apart from fenerbache who wanted less then half the agreed amount for yobo.

    Fellaini is no where near 40k a week, he was one of our lowest earners,
    Rodwell got a contract worth 30k a week when he impressed, expect barkley to get something similar.
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,164

    I thought Fellaini was still on the same deal that we signed him on from Standard Leige. Which if I remember correctly was something odd like, 90k (in euros) per month.
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,455
    I have no idea but I can't imagine that our all time most expensive signing is "one of our lowest earners"
  • briceybaby
    Posts: 194
    thats the thing that puzzles me.

    getting business done early etc

    did he say that before of after the big 'sit down' with kenwright? because more recently he said that he doesnt want to sell anyone?? your probably right Rodwell being his trump card but again, it was only the press that said that because rodwell seemed to be the obvious sacrifice. young, english, potential, bench warmer.

    the main piont of my post tho, that i want people to bare in mind is that, the banks are not gonna hang us out to dry. they just want us to stay within our credit limit (god knows how many times ive heard that from santander!) and make out repayments. once we have that stability, then we will sell and buy.

    thing is tho, we aint gonna sell a player for 20m and then go buy someone for 20m on 80k a week! it would be more like a couple of players on something like 20 - 30k a week

    basically, get the wages down, then after that, one in one out
  • briceybaby
    Posts: 194
    i dont know. i heard it was 40. not sure how or where that could be confirmed. anyone got football manager lol
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,164
    Beano said:

    I have no idea but I can't imagine that our all time most expensive signing is "one of our lowest earners"



    A pay rise is a pay rise. And the Belgian league is not really that comparable to the prem in wage terms.

    google 'Standard liege fellaini 90k euros' it does get a fair few mentions. It stuck in my mind as it was such a strangely termed amount for a football player. But then, I suppose thats Belgium for you.
  • escla
    Posts: 2,558
    But that's less than 20k a week? No wonder his Dad wants him to move !
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 3,164

    You can imagine Kenwright can't you.....90k!!!! ....oh right, in euros......(gets out calculator)..erm, but still.....oh right, a month......erm, well go on then, seeing how much Moyes wants you we'll break the bank on this one! (rubs hands together)
  • Daive521
    Posts: 2,517
    Kinda brings it ALL into perspective when someone says James Vaughan ONLY cost £1M a year in Wages. They ARE ALL vastly overpaid.................Money in Football has gotten Totally RIDICULOUS. @the end of the day Football is about Entertainment.
  • 1ceablue
    Posts: 3,253
    I can't believe I bothered to read all this sh.ite. Everyone is just making up numbers as no one on here has any actual facts. Let it go, we don't have money and we owe money, that's it......
  • cjohno
    Posts: 5,471
    the top and bottom of it , we will never get took over and new investment in the current circumstances, we need a new ground to make us a viable takeover, the infastructure just isnt in place for anyone to buy us, so doesnt matter what figures are thrown around, we will never progress at the top end of the market again, goodison will never be profitable, the rs have the same problem at anfield, same reason arsenal left highbury and tripled there commercial turnover on matchdays, so figures like saving 5 million here and there dont really make much difference, end of the day we will slowly fall even further behind,we will have to sell best players season in season out and bring in worse ones, pray for a billionaire who wants a play thing only hope we got, or get given a new stadium for free like citeh.
  • gwladysstreet
    Posts: 199
    tickets11 said:

    and the fact is it was all speculation, .




    you quote speculation as though it were fact. it's not, it's your opinion
  • briceybaby
    Posts: 194
    1ceablue said:

    I can't believe I bothered to read all this sh.ite. Everyone is just making up numbers as no one on here has any actual facts. Let it go, we don't have money and we owe money, that's it......




    well your a happy mother lover aint ya! you'll find the numbers we are chatting about are pretty accurate. if everyone 'just let go' there wouldn't be a forum would there.
    to just say 'we don't have money and we owe money' is a bit weak. the point of this post is to highlight that, the banks are not about to bend us over and aim for the middle, despite what the press and groups like blue union would have you believe.

    To say its all shi..te is just something the blue union would come out with! at least give reasons why

  • gwladysstreet
    Posts: 199
    briceybaby said:

    1ceablue said:

    I can't believe I bothered to read all this sh.ite. Everyone is just making up numbers as no one on here has any actual facts. Let it go, we don't have money and we owe money, that's it......




    well your a happy mother lover aint ya! you'll find the numbers we are chatting about are pretty accurate. if everyone 'just let go' there wouldn't be a forum would there.
    to just say 'we don't have money and we owe money' is a bit weak. the point of this post is to highlight that, the banks are not about to bend us over and aim for the middle, despite what the press and groups like blue union would have you believe.

    To say its all shi..te is just something the blue union would come out with! at least give reasons why




    HOW ON EARTH ARE THEY ACCURATE?

    Guessed
  • Daive521
    Posts: 2,517
    Arn't their any 'Billionaire's' in L4
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