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Posts: 239August 2011 WELL !! as you all know i've been accused in the past of living with my blue tinted specs on...so what i'm about to say may come as a surprise and pains me to say it..but basically having read Beano's MY TWO CENTS..i couldn't disagree more..
IMO..Moyes got it totally wrong on saturday !!
His starting line up was wrong..
His substitutions were wrong...
His "tactical changes" with the substitutions were wrong..
In total we looked amateurish.....
To break it down.......
The staring line up was wrong......Diplomatically there was a job to do..by that i mean - what hadn't taken place so far this season ie: lack of transfer activity..i would have thought the remit for this game AT HOME, AGAINST A NEWLY PROMOTED SIDE..would have been APPEASE THE FANS !!!... ie start with your strongest team...secure the game....then make the changes with the "unfit" first teamers....we were playing QPR for christsakes...recently promoted..recently hammered...
The substitutions were wrong......rodwell was poor..no arguments there!! but then to put arteta on out wide..switching barkeley over to accomodate that..completely broke the " little shape" of the team we had playing at that time...then when we were losing at home..0-1 to take off our centre forward and leave us without a centre forward for what 10 mins ?? then take heitinga off put fellaini on..switch cahill back to holding midfielder with arteta stuck out wide doing nothing !! then moving fellaini up front !!! FFS even i was confused....
the tactical changes...well i think i've already said all that above...what little shape we had changed about 3 times...and we were all over the place.....
it looked poor and was poor....we looked like we had no plan B...and it was a case of lets salvage what we can....however we can...
I know beano said we had most of the game etc etc etc...but TBH that was only because they were a poor side..against better opposition behaving like that we'd have been hammered......
Like i started with ...it pains me to say all the above...i've always stuck behind the team, Moyes and the club and always will...BUT how much of this can we take ??
I WILL be there at blackburn....I jUst hope the real EVERTON will be too..... -
Posts: 3,297August 2011 I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
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Posts: 762August 2011Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
Ah beano mr never wrong stop wriggling will yer
You still reeling after stating ALL transfer money received goes onto reinvesting in players ? -
Posts: 239August 2011Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !! -
Posts: 762August 2011KHL10 said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !!
you tell him khl he believes in his own hype that lad
even I knew what you meant and I'm a washed up alcoholic ex game show host
AWIGHT -
Posts: 3,122August 2011 I think people put to much importance in tactics....its about the players, and the players attitude. On saturday our 11 players on paper were far superior to their 11, and Moyes played a system that has best suited us over the years. But the players weren't up for it, just like they weren't up for the games last season against "smaller clubs". Ofcourse we lack quality upfront, but so did QPR and they still scored. Too many players on saturday weren't in the mood, and quite a few didn't seem match fit, which is disgraceful. Moyes can't hold their hands when they go out on the pitch, the same as he can't force them to train in their own time if their fitness levels aren't where they need to be.
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Posts: 3,297August 2011Michael Barrymore said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
Ah beano mr never wrong stop wriggling will yer
You still reeling after stating ALL transfer money received goes onto reinvesting in players ?
I said all transfer money recieved before this year went on buying players and I proved it. No reeling necessary!
You on the other hand still haven't explianed how the AJ money went to the banks as you claimed - when infact we bought Fellaini 2 weeks later. I think it's the 4th time now I have asked....but you convieniently never see the question! -
Posts: 239August 2011NSNO said:
I think people put to much importance in tactics....its about the players, and the players attitude. On saturday our 11 players on paper were far superior to their 11, and Moyes played a system that has best suited us over the years. But the players weren't up for it, just like they weren't up for the games last season against "smaller clubs". Ofcourse we lack quality upfront, but so did QPR and they still scored. Too many players on saturday weren't in the mood, and quite a few didn't seem match fit, which is disgraceful. Moyes can't hold their hands when they go out on the pitch, the same as he can't force them to train in their own time if their fitness levels aren't where they need to be.
sorry NSNO gotta disagree with your comments re tactics....the game is about the players but without tactics all you've got is 11/10 men running around like headless chickens !!
as for the system.. maybe thats where you're getting confused as it's actually the players that make the system.. not the system that makes the players....which was why it became (IMO) shambolic on saturday... we had players out of position all over the park then reverting to a second position because a player had been substituted !! -
Posts: 3,297August 2011KHL10 said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !!
But they're not the strongest team if they're not match fit! You can't start a game with the plan of using your 3 substitutions in the first half an hour or 40 minutes. That's ridiculous!!! -
Posts: 762August 2011Beano said:Michael Barrymore said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
Ah beano mr never wrong stop wriggling will yer
You still reeling after stating ALL transfer money received goes onto reinvesting in players ?
I said all transfer money recieved before this year went on buying players and I proved it. No reeling necessary!
You on the other hand still haven't explianed how the AJ money went to the banks as you claimed - when infact we bought Fellaini 2 weeks later. I think it's the 4th time now I have asked....but you convieniently never see the question!
I never mentioned johnson I said mcfadden and davies to my recollection its you with the fixation with fellaini and standard liege
I like the way you say up til this year now when its been blatantly going on for years felliani was funded by future sky money aj went straight into debt repayment -
Posts: 3,122August 2011KHL10 said:NSNO said:
sorry NSNO gotta disagree with your comments re tactics....the game is about the players but without tactics all you've got is 11/10 men running around like headless chickens !!
as for the system.. maybe thats where you're getting confused as it's actually the players that make the system.. not the system that makes the players....which was why it became (IMO) shambolic on saturday... we had players out of position all over the park then reverting to a second position because a player had been substituted !!
not meaning to say tactics play no part, ofcourse they do.....but i think the importance of tactics is overstated.
Look at Germany in the last world cup.....their was no tactical genius about that team, they just had young players who were big time up for it. they went out and just played football, no messing, no Michael Ballack telling everyone where to be and what to do, they just played football.
Football is the simplest game in the world........and if you have better players than the opposition, and you have the right attitude, then 8 time of 10 you'll win....
Was it the fault of tactics that Beckford couldn't hold on to the ball?, was it the fault of tactics that arteta could barely run when he came on, that Osman could barely run after 60 mins....that their was little urgency about our play for most of the game?......
The best player on the pitch was Barkley....how tactical do you think a 17 year played?...... -
Posts: 3,297August 2011Michael Barrymore said:
I never mentioned johnson I said mcfadden and davies to my recollection its you with the fixation with fellaini and standard liege
I like the way you say up til this year now when its been blatantly going on for years felliani was funded by future sky money aj went straight into debt repayment
You're some plank....You deny that you included AJ in it and then you go and repeat the claim on AJ again!
Your exact words:
"nah we've seen it time and time again, McFadden, Davies even Andy Johnsons fee went on debt. The only 2 players transfer fees to get reinvested in playing staff was Rooney and Lescott the rest went into the abyss "
And here it is:
:http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/discussion/comment/3220#Comment_3220
The same thread also shows that I was talking about figures from 18 months ago the last time I had compiled the list of incommings/outgoings. I deliberately used the words "AT THE TIME" and acknowledged in the same thread that this years money has not been used on purchases. So I haven't changed a thing!
Why the **** would we pay AJ money to the bank and then borrow it out again only days later anyway? Absolute plank!
The funniest thing of all being - even if the AJ money had gone to the bank, it would have been to repay money borrowed to buy players - in which case the AJ money was still have used to buy players!
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Posts: 239August 2011NSNO said:KHL10 said:NSNO said:
sorry NSNO gotta disagree with your comments re tactics....the game is about the players but without tactics all you've got is 11/10 men running around like headless chickens !!
as for the system.. maybe thats where you're getting confused as it's actually the players that make the system.. not the system that makes the players....which was why it became (IMO) shambolic on saturday... we had players out of position all over the park then reverting to a second position because a player had been substituted !!
not meaning to say tactics play no part, ofcourse they do.....but i think the importance of tactics is overstated.
Look at Germany in the last world cup.....their was no tactical genius about that team, they just had young players who were big time up for it. they went out and just played football, no messing, no Michael Ballack telling everyone where to be and what to do, they just played football.
Football is the simplest game in the world........and if you have better players than the opposition, and you have the right attitude, then 8 time of 10 you'll win....
Was it the fault of tactics that Beckford couldn't hold on to the ball?, was it the fault of tactics that arteta could barely run when he came on, that Osman could barely run after 60 mins....that their was little urgency about our play for most of the game?......
The best player on the pitch was Barkley....how tactical do you think a 17 year played?......
sorry m8 gotta keep disagreeing with you...even if as you say germany had no tactics (and believe me they did.. having worked in germany for some time i know that they will have had tactics ) their tactic in your logic was .."to have no tactics" ...i think you are confusing yourself with what "tactics" actually are...
I dont understand why your stating beckfords poor touch or arteta being unable to run etc etc...with tactics ??lost me there !! as for barkley i think tactically he played very well he obviously had instructions from Moyes( who on more than 1 occasion called him over and spoke to him)and he kept to them well......
even pub teams play to some form of tactics...even if it's "kick hell outta them"....... -
Posts: 239August 2011Beano said:KHL10 said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !!
But they're not the strongest team if they're not match fit! You can't start a game with the plan of using your 3 substitutions in the first half an hour or 40 minutes. That's ridiculous!!!
IF they were on the bench they were fit enough to start....saha played in most of the friendly games....fellaini played in (i think 3) or part of....arteta arguably the most least "match" fit....however if they were physically unfit they wouldn't have even been on the bench at all !!!!
also dont forget these are professional athletes with a modecam of fitness levels that would last them at least 60 mins minimum i'd state.......and not forgetting i stated "until the game was secure"..... and you wouldn't just substitute all 3 if we were say 3/4 up after half an hour...so even to suggest it is ridiculous......
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Posts: 762August 2011Beano said:Michael Barrymore said:
I never mentioned johnson I said mcfadden and davies to my recollection its you with the fixation with fellaini and standard liege
I like the way you say up til this year now when its been blatantly going on for years felliani was funded by future sky money aj went straight into debt repayment
You're some plank....You deny that you included AJ in it and then you go and repeat the claim on AJ again!
Your exact words:
"nah we've seen it time and time again, McFadden, Davies even Andy Johnsons fee went on debt. The only 2 players transfer fees to get reinvested in playing staff was Rooney and Lescott the rest went into the abyss "
And here it is:
:http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/discussion/comment/3220#Comment_3220
The same thread also shows that I was talking about figures from 18 months ago the last time I had compiled the list of incommings/outgoings. I deliberately used the words "AT THE TIME" and acknowledged in the same thread that this years money has not been used on purchases. So I haven't changed a thing!
Why the **** would we pay AJ money to the bank and then borrow it out again only days later anyway? Absolute plank!
The funniest thing of all being - even if the AJ money had gone to the bank, it would have been to repay money borrowed to buy players - in which case the AJ money was still have used to buy players!
I never wrote that its obvious that you've doctored it
Plus thats the case I set ,you said money reaped goes into buying players I said it pays debts
You can eit posts all you like I'm right you're wrong
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Posts: 3,122August 2011KHL10 said:
I dont understand why your stating beckfords poor touch or arteta being unable to run etc etc...with tactics ??lost me there !! as for barkley i think tactically he played very well he obviously had instructions from Moyes( who on more than 1 occasion called him over and spoke to him)and he kept to them well......
even pub teams play to some form of tactics...even if it's "kick hell outta them".......
My point with Beckford & arteta was......you can't blame tactics when a player doesn't perform......Beckford's hold up play was shocking, thats why we struggled to hurt them in the final third...and arteta's fitness was shockingly low, so again you can have all the tactics in the world, if the players aren't fit enough, or not in the right mood, its irrellevant.
On the other point about players being disorganised and out of position.......I don't think any player was put in a position he hadn't played before, and everyone should have been more than comfortable with the formation.....(and i know people say its unfair to bring up their wages all the time but) these guys get paid between 30-70k a week to play this game, they're amongst the best in the world at this game. Being switched from centre midfield to right midfield, or pushed from midfield to upfront shouldn't be an impossible task, we were up against a team of championship players earning a quarter of what our players earn, and we barely treatened their goal.
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Posts: 3,297August 2011Michael Barrymore said:Beano said:Michael Barrymore said:
I never mentioned johnson I said mcfadden and davies to my recollection its you with the fixation with fellaini and standard liege
I like the way you say up til this year now when its been blatantly going on for years felliani was funded by future sky money aj went straight into debt repayment
You're some plank....You deny that you included AJ in it and then you go and repeat the claim on AJ again!
Your exact words:
"nah we've seen it time and time again, McFadden, Davies even Andy Johnsons fee went on debt. The only 2 players transfer fees to get reinvested in playing staff was Rooney and Lescott the rest went into the abyss "
And here it is:
:http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/discussion/comment/3220#Comment_3220
The same thread also shows that I was talking about figures from 18 months ago the last time I had compiled the list of incommings/outgoings. I deliberately used the words "AT THE TIME" and acknowledged in the same thread that this years money has not been used on purchases. So I haven't changed a thing!
Why the **** would we pay AJ money to the bank and then borrow it out again only days later anyway? Absolute plank!
The funniest thing of all being - even if the AJ money had gone to the bank, it would have been to repay money borrowed to buy players - in which case the AJ money was still have used to buy players!
I never wrote that its obvious that you've doctored it
Plus thats the case I set ,you said money reaped goes into buying players I said it pays debts
You can eit posts all you like I'm right you're wrong
I genuinely don't know whether you're acting the thicko now - or if you're actually that thick and don't know that I cannot edit other peoples posts! I wouldn't be suprised either way! -
Posts: 3,297August 2011KHL10 said:Beano said:KHL10 said:Beano said:
I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !!
But they're not the strongest team if they're not match fit! You can't start a game with the plan of using your 3 substitutions in the first half an hour or 40 minutes. That's ridiculous!!!
IF they were on the bench they were fit enough to start....saha played in most of the friendly games....fellaini played in (i think 3) or part of....arteta arguably the most least "match" fit....however if they were physically unfit they wouldn't have even been on the bench at all !!!!
also dont forget these are professional athletes with a modecam of fitness levels that would last them at least 60 mins minimum i'd state.......and not forgetting i stated "until the game was secure"..... and you wouldn't just substitute all 3 if we were say 3/4 up after half an hour...so even to suggest it is ridiculous......
KHL10 said:Beano said:KHL10 said:Beano said:I'm confused.
The "unfit" first teamers are the one's you wanted to bring on rather than start?
But the physically "unfit" players were Felllaini and Arteta....who were brought on rather than started...but it appears you wanted them to start! I can't follow that!
At the point Heitinga came off, we didn't even need a holding midfielder coz QPR had no intention of rummaging forward.
You cant obviously follow your own logic....
What I said was i'd have started with my strongest team to secure the game.....then change them if they were that unfit to last 90 mins....that strongest starting team would have included fellaini,saha and arteta YES !!.....if they were fit enough to be on the bench then they were fit enough to start !!
But they're not the strongest team if they're not match fit! You can't start a game with the plan of using your 3 substitutions in the first half an hour or 40 minutes. That's ridiculous!!!
IF they were on the bench they were fit enough to start....saha played in most of the friendly games....fellaini played in (i think 3) or part of....arteta arguably the most least "match" fit....however if they were physically unfit they wouldn't have even been on the bench at all !!!!
also dont forget these are professional athletes with a modecam of fitness levels that would last them at least 60 mins minimum i'd state.......and not forgetting i stated "until the game was secure"..... and you wouldn't just substitute all 3 if we were say 3/4 up after half an hour...so even to suggest it is ridiculous......
I'm talking physically match fit.
The only way of getting them match fit is by giving them match time!
That was the plan. None of them 3 looked fit enough to go much more than 6 minutes never mind 60! -
Posts: 762August 2011Beano said:Michael Barrymore said:Beano said:Michael Barrymore said:
I never mentioned johnson I said mcfadden and davies to my recollection its you with the fixation with fellaini and standard liege
I like the way you say up til this year now when its been blatantly going on for years felliani was funded by future sky money aj went straight into debt repayment
You're some plank....You deny that you included AJ in it and then you go and repeat the claim on AJ again!
Your exact words:
"nah we've seen it time and time again, McFadden, Davies even Andy Johnsons fee went on debt. The only 2 players transfer fees to get reinvested in playing staff was Rooney and Lescott the rest went into the abyss "
And here it is:
:http://www.evertonfc.com/forum/discussion/comment/3220#Comment_3220
The same thread also shows that I was talking about figures from 18 months ago the last time I had compiled the list of incommings/outgoings. I deliberately used the words "AT THE TIME" and acknowledged in the same thread that this years money has not been used on purchases. So I haven't changed a thing!
Why the **** would we pay AJ money to the bank and then borrow it out again only days later anyway? Absolute plank!
The funniest thing of all being - even if the AJ money had gone to the bank, it would have been to repay money borrowed to buy players - in which case the AJ money was still have used to buy players!
I never wrote that its obvious that you've doctored it
Plus thats the case I set ,you said money reaped goes into buying players I said it pays debts
You can eit posts all you like I'm right you're wrong
I genuinely don't know whether you're acting the thicko now - or if you're actually that thick and don't know that I cannot edit other peoples posts! I wouldn't be suprised either way!
Not as smart as you like to perceive are we?
You do realise I've been deliberately been poking you to react?
I'm very well known for it like
And I'm passed caring where the transfer money goes tbh all I know is we haven't won a trophy since 1995 and thats when I stopped caring
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