1ceablue

Posts: 3,253

August 2011

jj1878 said:

ToffeeCup said:

I agree to the extent that it is good that fans look to try and help make sure their club is being run correctly.

But this wasn't a case of that. This was an assortment of splinted Everton fan groups, coming together to meet with the club chairman under one banner.

They accused him of not being honest with them while secretly taping the conversation with them.

They took exception to being asked if they understood the clubs accounts while making it clear, even with the full benefit of further time to research their points that they don't have a clue about even the most basic of financial terms, let alone a full set of accounts.

They didn't even notice the one bone Kenwright threw them, in the way you might reasonably expect them not to recognise their own elbow from their backside.

They acted in such a shameful manner that the club manager felt the need to mention their sorry antics on MotD.

They are fantasists, well meaning fools but fools none the less. And they have brought embarrassment upon the club and themselves.



Lets be clear, we laughed at the youtube clip asking Hicks and Gillett to 'jogg on'

We laughed at ManYoo fans barricading the Glazers in at Old Trafford whilst charting 'glazers out'.



Lots of clubs have their fair share of cringe inducingly stupid fans.....but we should recognise them as such, and certainly not commend them or be appreciative of their ill thought out and idiotic efforts.

I understand what you aare saying, but these are desperate times for a lot of Blues, and they just went for it.. I do not know any of the people who went to this meeting, but I presume they are ordinay people going into a world like this for the first time and probaly with not a lot of ideas of how they should act...it was proably new to them.

Then they shouldn't have been there. We have enough amateurs running the club without another bunch of amateurs telling the first bunch of amateurs how to improve. If this was a TV programme it would be classified as a black comedy.........

OldGoldenVision

Posts: 19,512

August 2011 on a recruitment drive deso?

ToffeeCup

Posts: 3,001

August 2011

deso1957bc said:

Maybe some good will come of it...
That I understand and indeed hope it will..
Much of your posts however simply condemn 3 people who travelled to meet Bill to ascertain,as far as possible,what is going on at Everton FC.
The taping of the interview was wrong.
His approach to them,and us incidentally,was patronising,evasive,disingenuous and appallingly insensitive.
Yet this does not merit even a mild reproach from you?
I note that you do not visit Toffeeweb......you would feel well at home there as this is where many former Blueroom members now reside.The article by Lyndon Lloyd on these events and Bill's tenure is excellent,and I recommend it to you.
We are now 12 years in to Bill's reign and things are not going to get better..face it...if last weeks events hasten his departure,as I believe they will,then,yes,some good will have come of it.

Regardless of what you think of the way Bill Kenwright treats/patronises the fans or is disingenuous or any of the other things you might say or feel, Everton FC is a business and he is one of the owners.

No amount of utterly embarrassing ar_sehats claiming complete twaddle over the interweb is going to change that. Yet they tried, they thought they could. It made horrible viewing, and everyone outside of the club watched them and laughed.

Mr Kenwright has earned the right to own Everton FC because he's put himself in a position to be able to buy it, and then he bought it. These three Blue Union chumps have failed to do anything of any worth.

But at least it is clear and accepted by all now that the club is very much on the market. Something Bill Kenwright has been telling the fans for a very long time now.

I just can't see why its his fault that you and many others needed three embarrassingly incompetent_pr1cks to tell you that before you accepted it. But you did, and that is all they are.

ToffeeCup

Posts: 3,001

August 2011 Interesting first post.

Nothing came out of that transcript that wasn't already known.

Other than Kenwrights assertion that J W Henry is considering a ground share, and even that was cited as the main reason he was attempting to buy Liverpool at the time.



As for everything else you've said. Good grief, as if any businessman owes you an explanation as to why or when he elects to take out a loan.

Everton are a business, this is the transfer window and the sky money arrives in September. Which will no doubt lead you to conclude that Philip Green controls the club and is in fact an alien.

KHL10

Posts: 239

August 2011 i'm not going to pass comment on the rights and wrongs of whats occured...

however I do believe that to allow 3 complete novices to interview the Chairman of a professional football club, business man and media expert was complete inanity and bound to end up the way it has....

having read the transcripts it's plainy obvious that the "interview" was all over the place, had no structure to it and hence allowed a professional person, used to dealing with professional reporters, to dictate the direction the interview went.....

whereas the poster above stated that Bill was very obnoxious and condescending (or whatever he posted) IMO he had every right to be when dealing with totally unprofessional people such as these......

IhateRS

Posts: 1,091

August 2011 Gray can I ask what new information you got and was it enough to merit ensuring that there would be no more meetings?
For me they were on the right path to actually getting some information but shot their load way too early before getting anything new from the man at all.
They don't deserve to get the amount of abuse they are getting, but hell neither does the man who has overseen us rise from regular relegation fodder to regular european challengers, and they were quite willing to fuel that fire, a little bit of reap what you sow imo.. They must of known something like this would always get backlash when it became apparent they had closed down the one chance of getting some actual communication going, but instead exchanged for the glory of publishing a meeting with nothing we didn't know in it.
Personally I think you sound like you've been on Kipper too long mate. And as with most things quoted on both of the other mentioned forums.. the Virgin isles thing is still a rumour, unless you have seen a link I am unaware of, the caller was asked to send a link.. Has he actually done this or was his bluff called?
As for the bored thing, wouldn't you be if every single time you get asked a question you got asked the same question that you cannot give the answer to?

ToffeeCup

Posts: 3,001

August 2011

Gray90 said:

Well yes as a stakeholder in the business, he does owe us an explanation as to why we have to take out loans to simply pay for bills and service interest on other loans. As a shareholder he certainly owes me an explanation. But with abolishment of EGM's there is little hope of that happening. Just another method of keeping people asking relevant questions of the board and their mismangement.

I'd say a fair amount came out of the transcript, we all knew we were having financial difficulties but not to this extent. We didn't know Bill got to due diligence with a guy who apparentley "lived in a one bedroom flat". Another thing that became apparant in the transcript is Bill's arrogance and ego. "If I was you I’d want me there” and "because I don’t agree that anyone can do a better job…it’s me, it’s me" Refusing to accept his 10 years of failure is naive.

In your job if you had an objective and failed to accomplish it for 10 years do you think you'd still have that job? No of course not. His instant dismissal of an interim board is just arrogance of the highest order. Martin Broughton is a prime example of how an interim board can be successful. But he won't even entertain the idea.

Also the fact that he doesn't even understand his own accounts and claims to not know what 24 million worth of operating costs is also worrying. He is clearly out of his depth.

Just to point out I don't believe Phiilip Green owns the club.

Gray90, as you've taken the time to register an account on here just to reply to this thread I think the least I can do is reply to your last post point by point and then I’ll leave it at that.

As a shareholder in the business you will be aware of your rights as outlined in company law, if not you might want to contact companies house for advice if you feel your rights are being infringed upon.

Regarding the abolishment of EGM's. Given that they could be repeatedly called by the sort of attention seeking halfwits that make/made up blue union, you can understand why the board took action not to have the club dragged through the sort of charade we've just witnessed here.

It was done legally, and was within the main shareholder’s rights to do so. You choose to call that 'Just another method of keeping people asking relevant questions of the board and their mismangement.' Where others might view it as 'A sensible precaution for preventing the lunatic fringe from embarrassing themselves and the club in public'

Regarding the value of what came out of the meeting. Kenwright made mention of some things, the one bed flat thing for example, which were little details that didn't paint Keith Harris in a very attractive light. Kenwright was doing that while trying to explain that he was not relying on one person but everyone in the industry to bring him prospective buyers for him to sell the club to. Something he's been fairly open about to in the past, but he embellished upon it here at Keith Harris's expense.

Your point about 'Bill got to due diligence with a guy' is just tellingly poor.

If your dealing with the with a well known foreign billionaire who has a questionable reputation in the area of human rights and his treatment of tax laws, you do the 'due diligence' after agreeing the terms of a deal on account that you know he has the money but you need to ensure that he'd get past the fit and proper persons criteria. In this instance the term 'due diligence' is used as a shield behind which accountants and legal folk are preparing the case for the new prospective owner, and the honour of the previous owners in selling the club to them.

If you haven't got the faintest clue who the person is, you conduct 'due diligence' to ensure your prospective buyer has the money, isn't leveraged to the eyeballs and that there isn't anything else overtly alarming about the person which would alert you to avoid wasting your time thrashing out a deal. In this instance the term 'due diligence' is used as term that ensures that the current owners don't insult the prospective buyer, but the current owners may elect likely deflect any annoyance at it taking place before a negotiations start by suggesting it is requirement put forward by their accountants.

On the point about Kenwright being arrogant, naive and thinking no one else could do better and that we should want him in the there. He isn't claiming interest on his sizeable loan, he is the only chairman in the league not to take a salary or expenses and puts the total that has saved the club at around 10 million. He also spends a large amount of time serving the club in his duties. To be honest Everton FC has problems, but a chairman who doesn't understand the club, the industry, sacks managers too readily or is arrogant or naive just isn't one of them. The club's supporters should also be pleased that it doesn't have another ten million missing from the pitch or on the balance sheet as debt.

Even the idea that you, someone posting anonymously on the internet who only signed up to this forum to defend the gang of fools responsible for this debacle, could call a self made man who has built a multi million pound business 'naive' is just gut wrenchingly funny.

He is one of the businesses owners, he is not an employee. If he and the board feel that he is the man for the job then that is what is required to keep him on the role. Not the approval of a couple of dozen kipper dwellers who would benefit from getting out a bit more.

And regarding the 24 million operating costs issue that has been widely ridiculed elsewhere to the point that I'm surprised you even felt the need to mention it. Everton has a finance team for a reason, the board has to sign off the accounts and accountants these days are prosecuted for misrepresentation if any are signed off by the auditors. Why you feel the need to have Mr Kenwright answer questions put to him by the sort of people who failed to grasp the difference between an 'interest free loan' and 'investment' is just beyond me.

And taking all that into account you using the term 'clearly out of his depth' is just laughable. The only people out of their depth are the rats fleeing the joke ship, blue union.




But for the record. I didn't think Kirkby was in the best interests of the club. I thought the way the club handled the situation was disgusting: The fans vote, the information that came out afterwards, and government review.... all an absolute disgrace. I'm certainly not one for taking the clubs line as dished up and fed to me.

But maybe now people can understand a little more why the board made such a crass grab for what would have greatly reduced the main barrier to new investment in Everton, the stadium. After all, people only put with some much grief. The board is desperate to sell, and the situation is getting worse to the point where the clubs cash flow requires it to wait for a sky payment which will be made the wrong side of this transfer window.

We all knew the situation was bad, now we know a couple of further details... as does every other club we need to deal with on player transfer deals. But at the end of the day, if you or anyone else on Toffeeweb/Kipper's opinions were worth listening to... you'd either be filing legal action against the board over a breach of your rights as a shareholder, or you'd be making a bid to buy Kenwrights shares of him to prove to us all how much of a better job you'd do.

I'm not saying Kenwright is perfect, I'm not even saying he has done the best job that anyone could be expected to do within the same financial restraints. But I do trust him to know what he is doing as a business man and an Evertonian. And I wouldn't put a fiver on any of you lot knowing the difference between a balance sheet and a bed sheet going on the half witted drivel you and those you've supported on here have put forth of late.

IhateRS

Posts: 1,091

August 2011

Gray90 said:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/62701660/Vibrac-Charge-190811 Theres the link for loan from the BVI.

He was asked twice during the meeting at which he valued the club. He then abused the shareholder and refused to answer his question. The man is a shareholder and has every right to know what the club is valued at. Robert Elstone also stated at the start of the meeting that no question was out of bounds and would be answered honestly. Shame Bill doesn't hold his level of professionalism.

So Bill Kenwright deserves credit for providing David Moyes with a mighty 3 million a season since he took charge? And not a penny for the past 3 seasons outside of sales? Its down to him we've rose away from the relegation zone? Or is it down to David Moyes' fantastic eye for a bargain. Do you forget that Bill Kenwright was chairman under Walter Smith and it wasn't until Moyes came in (on Smiths recommendation) that we moved away from relegation battlers. You are giving him far too much credit.

Sinc he took charge he has overseen 2 failed stadium moves, more than doubled the clubs debt, invented imaginary investors in order to keep control of the club (fortress sport fund), abolished shareholder meetings, allowed Dan Gosling to leave without compensation, sold the majority of the clubs assets including the training ground which we now lease back at the cost of a million a year and failed to find a buyer for the club over a period of 10 years.

So yes he does deserve the level of stick he gets as he is quite clearly not up to the job. You seem to think every Evertonians has a personnal vendetta against Bill. They don't, if he was up to the job we'd all be more than happy for him to be in charge. But sadly he isn't up to the job, he is slowly killing our club and I for one are not going to stand back and watch.

It doesn't matter who recommended him, Kenwright bought in Moyes and since Kenwright took over we have risen from relegation candidates to eurocandidates.
You look at the net spend he has given, then look how much has gone into the youth system and wages, then look t the debt we are in.. Would you rather we spent 20mil a season? That would be nice.. we would of all been looking for a new sport by now.
If you haven't got money, you need a bit restraint in this league and Moyes has had enough money spent on wages for players he wanted to keep that we are in negative money each year.
Kenwright does not deserve being attacked in his own home by people posting turds through the letter box, if he took a wage for what he was doing, I may havea different opinion though.

ToffeeCup

Posts: 3,001

August 2011
I wouldn't waste any more typing on it KHL.

Both he and they are a good lesson is what happens when a child like understanding is applied to a complex situation. If they've no understanding of company law, accounting regulations, basic financial terms or have any understanding of how, when or even the variety of things the term 'due diligence' can be applied to then there really is no point.



Didn't you hear?... Kenwright was going to sign the club over to some guy in a one bed flat in Manchester you know? They'd done the whole deal and it was only at the very end while doing the due diligence that they spotted he had no money at all....what a joke the board is, nearly gave the club away to some joker on the back of a worthless contract...

Jesus wept, I suspect self made millionaires do that sort of thing on a daily basis... or in Kenwrights case, maybe even twice a day!

Gray90

Posts: 5

August 2011 He also doesn't deserve a pat on the back when the only achievement you could point to during his tenture is appointing David Moyes. His failings are there for all to see, he has demonstrated on numerous occassions that he isn't up to the job and that he would mislead the fans to satisfy his own gains.

Where have I ever stated Bill was going to sell the club to zed person. You asked what was posted in the transcript that we didn't already know, I pointed that out to you. You then started to be condescending and quite frankly you just come across as sanctimonious. I assure you as a business student I am very adept at constructing balance sheets and other financial documents, I also have a pretty good knowledge of business law. So please get down off your pedestal.

I don't just Blame Bill Kenwright, the other board members are equally to blame as none of them have put a penny into the club (stated in the public enquiry) and have misled the fans on a number of key issues. Kenwright gets most of the flack as he has consistently lied to the fans during the course of his tenture (fortress sport fund, kirby, watch this space, etc) Robert Earl bought shares in the hope that Kirby would go through and their value would triple. Which explans the boards desperation for the move to go ahead.

I do blame Bill for Kings Dock, he stated the money was "ringfenced". Yet it never materialised. When another Board member offered to pay for money (in return for Bill stepping down) he invented the Fortress Sport Fund as a way of fending him off, "the money will be in the bank in the morning". It wasn't, the move fell through and we missed out on an iconic stadium in a brilliant location. He should have stepped down after this in my opinion.

The boards handling of the Kirby debacle was quite frankly embarrassing, lie after lie after lie. It was described as a con during the public enquiry and thankfully we weren't stuck in a poor location with terrible transport links and minimal extra revenue generated by the new stadium. They wasted time and millions of pounds on a stadium that was never feasable.

The Everton board of directors are all in bed together. Surely you have to acknowledge this?

If you think Bill is the right man for the job, then fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree, but I ask you to explain the following points and how he demonstrated (by his performance during these events) that he is the best man for the job or that he is competant at his job.

Kings Dock
Kirby
NTL
Fortress Sport Fund
Dan Goslings Contract
Asset disposal

If you believe he should still be in the job after failures of that magnitude than I'll call the men in the white coats.