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You can't blame any of the players
  • mattyod
    Posts: 305
    Until Moyes starts selecting players in their right position we will never know whether the player still has it or not.

    Strikers we have 4 strikers and I feel they could do a job for us if we played 2 up. Saha is quality but not a target man. He needs to drop back and link the play like Rooney, Sheringham Beardsley etc. Vellios is not a target man and therefore has always looked poor whenhe starts. Denis and McAleny have not been give game time.

    Cahill is not a striker and after a year of playing him there without a goal surely Moyes gets the message. He is not a bad player just played out of position. Osman is not a winger and always drifts out of position leaving us unbalanced. Billy is not done it on the wings but he is a attacking CM but to date we have not played him there. Barkley is CM but we keep pushing him onto the right.

    Neville and Heitinga are not CM's. Heitinga (sorry Dan) has been excellent in central defense and should only play there. Rodwell and Felliani cannot play together because the are not creative enough and therefore we might not let any in but never look like scoring.

    Goalie Howard
    RB Coleman, Neville or Hibbert
    CM 2 of Jags, Heitinga or Distin
    LB Baines
    RM Gueye, Donovan or Coleman
    DCM Felliani or Rodwell
    ACM Barkley Osman Billy or Cahill
    LM Gueye or Drenthe
    Support Striker Saha
    Striker Vellios Denis or McAleny

    Vitor Anichebe none of the above

    Pick them in there place and then we will know where we are short. I feel are biggest problem is creativity but until we play the above formation with players in the right place we will never know.
  • mattyod
    Posts: 305
    My first choice would be

    Howard
    Coleman
    Jags
    Heitinga
    Baines
    Donovan (Gueye until available)
    Felliani
    Barkley (Osman so he is not played too much)
    Drenthe
    Saha
    Denis (Vellios off the bench)
  • Phantomblue
    Posts: 418
    "cant blame any of the player" please! How many crosses have gone into
    the box to only have the keeper get them and before you (anybody) say
    about lack of players in the box to attack the ball, the crosses have
    been in the 6 yard box eaten up by the keeper.

    and to answer those that would say about lack of players in the box, why
    cross the it if there is an odd player in there with 3/4 defends, being
    a pro player should be able to use a bit of that ability.

    and for other example of where the players can be blamed: Corners, not
    even getting past the first man. Sloppy first touches/ short passes is
    also a major problem.



    These are the areas where the player have to hold up their hands
  • mattyod
    Posts: 305
    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,247
    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.
  • kingmoyes
    Posts: 1,841
    Neville has been awful this season, pure dog shitee.. a lot of players have been under achieving in the first half of the season as usual...

    Ossie does not start playing until February, Cahill not had a goal in 75 years, Saha couldn't buy a goal, Coleman has been sussed out with his headless chicken runs, Billy as per usual....

    Its the same players all the time that keep us going on a consistent basis... Howard, Baines, Jags, Fellaini....

    Shame on Rods as he has started brilliant....

     
  • Daive521
    Posts: 2,329
    Some VERY Good points made in THIS Thread..................pity we haven't got more points!
  • mattyod
    Posts: 305
    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.


    Try watching the game? so far I have seen every minute of every game both home and away. Secondly I commented that I am taking generally about the season. Your statement of "Every single cross had by 3 to 5 in or around the box" is not accurate.

    Also I agree some players have been poor but without the right formation and players playin in their strongest position we are going to continually struggle.

    But instead of being critical of my observations with little substance feel free to make some ie do you think we are playing the best formation this season, are the players playing in their best positions, does the fault lie with the players or is it the managers defensive tactic?
  • Yobowannabe
    Posts: 1,991
    I blame the fans.
  • Daive521
    Posts: 2,329
    I Blame LadyLuck
  • sambo applecart
    Posts: 24,105
    i'M TO BLAME.
  • Daive521
    Posts: 2,329
    I often think I 'Will them on too much' perhaps if We have an Half-Soaked' attitude we do better?????
  • shotthrustu
    Posts: 125
    I think we should take a gamble

    Howard

    Jagielka Distin Heitinga

    Coleman/Hibbert Fellaini/Rodwell Baines

    Donovan/Barkley Drenthe/Osman/Gueye

    Vellios/Cahill Saha/Mcaleny

    But then thats just me i would like to see summat different the 2 wing backs would have to be on it defensively but worth a try. A bit of rotation for injuries or when landon goes back. we ideally want the talented youngsters getting game time.
  • shotthrustu
    Posts: 125
    in a 3-5-2 it didnt work how i posted it
  • shotthrustu
    Posts: 125
    in a 3-5-2 it didnt work how i posted it
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,247
    mattyod said:

    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.


    Try watching the game? so far I have seen every minute of every game both home and away. Secondly I commented that I am taking generally about the season. Your statement of "Every single cross had by 3 to 5 in or around the box" is not accurate.

    Also I agree some players have been poor but without the right formation and players playin in their strongest position we are going to continually struggle.

    But instead of being critical of my observations with little substance feel free to make some ie do you think we are playing the best formation this season, are the players playing in their best positions, does the fault lie with the players or is it the managers defensive tactic?


    When I said try watchin the game - I mean PROPERLY observe the play! Because yes it is accurate to say that every single time a cross came in last Saturday there were 3 to 5 players in or almost in the box

    My "observations" are well documented all season and every season.

    And no, I don't think 100% of the players play in their best positions 100% of the time - I don't believe it happens in any team, not even the one's with the big squads, much least a small squad.

    I think there's far too much hang up on formations and nonsense talk where people think if you're playing 10 defenders, you're playing a 10-0-0 formation.

    I think we need more players - isn't that what all of the 4ookin protesting against the board was about - but when it suits people, it's Moyes' fault.
    It's like Paul Merson said the other day - if we had a prolific goalscorer who'd get 15 premier league goals in the season, we'd easily be in the top 5 or 6 - and as I said a couple of weeks ago, only 8 different players out of the last 3 seasons have got 15 in the prem in a season...and all bar RVP cost near or well over £20 Million - and RVP wasn't even a striker when Wegner bought him!

    I think it's pretty typical of this place that people nit-pick - like when there were cries after every single weekend that Vellios needed to be given a start - and then when he was given it against Stoke, and was 54ite, how many people came back and said "Well, maybe Moyes was right all along"? After every bad result - even when we've just played one of Europe's finest, all I ever see are people going about the same thing....and then when you challenge them on what team should have been picked, they don't answer....or come up with something that contradicts their own stance....usually spouting rubbish about Barkely! FFS even Steven Gerrard hadn't started making PL sub appearances til he was a year older than Barkley was and Barkley has already nearly made the same number of appearances as lampard did when he was 19 and people act like it's outrageous that he doesn't get picked.
  • 1ceablue
    Posts: 3,253
    Yobowannabe said:

    I blame the fans.


    -----------------






    Yeah, their crosses into the box are fckng woeful............we need fans that can cross and pass a ball......rich fans would help as well.....
  • 11blue
    Posts: 4,668
    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.

    -----------------



    There is a difference between being in the box and being with in a couple of yards of the box!
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,247
    11blue said:

    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.

    -----------------



    There is a difference between being in the box and being with in a couple of yards of the box!

    -----------------



    I didn't say within a couple of yards of it. There were at least 3 players in the box every time a cross came in and usually another 1 or 2 players on the edge.

    Seriously people. Open your eyes and look at the 400king play!
  • 11blue
    Posts: 4,668
    Beano said:

    11blue said:

    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.

    -----------------



    There is a difference between being in the box and being with in a couple of yards of the box!

    -----------------



    I didn't say within a couple of yards of it. There were at least 3 players in the box every time a cross came in and usually another 1 or 2 players on the edge.

    Seriously people. Open your eyes and look at the 400king play!

    -----------------



    But there is not enough players getting on the end of these crosses, that is a fact. Its all well and good saying we have 2 or 3 inside the box and a couple of the edge, but nobody is getting on the end of them. Also, Saha spends most of the game in the centre circle or on the wing so our one striker is hardly ever in the box, so who does that leave that can score from one of these crosses? Neville? Drenthe? Gueye? Even Cahill doesn't look like scoring at the moment. We need to have someone like Denis or Vellios to get on the end of these crosses, they should be able to get on the end of some of these crosses.
  • Beano
    Posts: 3,247
    11blue said:

    Beano said:

    11blue said:

    Beano said:

    mattyod said:

    The statement was general, ofcourse players make mistakes but the point is that our poor performances is down to tactics and selection. If you only give one target in the middle you are going to struggle to score from cross and the reason we only have one in the box is tactics. Also poor crosses are also a problem when you do not play player who can cross a ball.

    Also if you do not have CM's supporting the wingers they will have no choice but to cross it. Also if you show no creativity and the only way you can score is by crossing it then as Stoke should its very easy to defend which again is down to poor tactics.

    From your comments then I assume you feel we are playing the right players in the right positions with the correct tactics?.




    Why don't you try actually wantching the game instead of following what everyone else says like a sheep!

    Every single time a cross came into the box from open play last Saturday, we has 3 to 5 players in the box or within a step of it.

    -----------------



    There is a difference between being in the box and being with in a couple of yards of the box!

    -----------------



    I didn't say within a couple of yards of it. There were at least 3 players in the box every time a cross came in and usually another 1 or 2 players on the edge.

    Seriously people. Open your eyes and look at the 400king play!

    -----------------



    But there is not enough players getting on the end of these crosses, that is a fact. Its all well and good saying we have 2 or 3 inside the box and a couple of the edge, but nobody is getting on the end of them. Also, Saha spends most of the game in the centre circle or on the wing so our one striker is hardly ever in the box, so who does that leave that can score from one of these crosses? Neville? Drenthe? Gueye? Even Cahill doesn't look like scoring at the moment. We need to have someone like Denis or Vellios to get on the end of these crosses, they should be able to get on the end of some of these crosses.

    -----------------



    Most crosses aren't good enough. Straight out of play or down the throat of the keeper. Coleman's service isn't good enough from the right. Hibbert's service overlapping him is worse. There's been little from the left of midfield either. Baines is the only one from that side delivering a reasonable service. And there's sweet FA through the middle. These matters have nothing to do with tactics.

    I keep saying. If we had Robin van Persie up front, he wouldn't be scoring either. We only ever had two creative influences, Arteta and Pienaar. They're gone. Now we've none when Drenthe has been out and he's still settling ! Even when we were at our recent very best in 2008\09, we struggled badly if we were without both Pienaar and Arteta at the same time....which happened at times!
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