Beano said:

tickets11 said:

Beano said:

tickets11 said:

im talking about europe in general not the Cl qualifiers.

sporting lisbon, benfica, fiorentina away, and a lot of away games we got absolutely battered.  it was literally like we took the under 16's.

Well it wasn't far off our under 16s
away to Sporting, we had a patched up defense with Senderons and Yobo in central defense and they had never played together before

With Benfica it was even worse. We started with Distin as our only centre back. No left back and no right midfeilder.

When you haven't even got a starting 11, I dunno how you're supposed to be able to patch up a team AND make tactical changes also!

You salso selectively leave out good results like Zenit St. Petersburg who won the UEFA cup the year we beat them in it and also won away to AZ Alkmaar who hadn't lost at home in Europe for a record 32 games

And by the way. Its not Manchini's first season in Euope with City! He has been in Eupoe with City before, and lazio and Inter Milan also.

Thats not to mention his contenintal experience as a player....and the fact that he's continental himself....incase you haven't noticed. He'd have played and magaed every game of his carrer against and with the more technical sides


SO THERE!!!!

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ye thats right blame it on injuries.

the only reason chelsea in the fa cup final beat us was because we had injuries wasnt it.  lets forget that they controlled the game for 89mins.

when we played away in europe, it wasnt a case of "we were unlucky" we got played off the park in a lot of those games and you know it, we fully deserved most of those defeats we had.  it wasnt a case of we never took our chances, it was a case of we never created any

and as I said about mancini, he saw his team stand toe to toe with the big boys in the premier league, and thought he could do the same to teams in europe, it never worked, now he has learnt his lesson.

Even ferguson has had to adapt to playing 4-5-1 in recent seasons in the champions league.

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Instead of spouting **** about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with anything mentioned in this thread (the 09 cup final, injuries causing the defeats etc), why make up quotes together with lovely quotation marks around words that nobody here said at all. Why not try to address the actual points that were made or questions that were asked?

I.E. How does a manager make tactical changes to a team that's already patched together?

How does Manchini not already have adequate European experience when he was in Europa last season with this team and in Champions League other reasons as both manager and player

Why pretend all the games we won never happened?

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are you serious, "a team that was pathced together.

we had jags, rodwell, yak and coleman on the BENCH.  Now if moyes decides not to use these players that his own fault, so lets not pretend that the team was "patched together" when it was infact moyes who chose those starting 11

there were 2 changes from the first leg where we won 2-1.  distin and cahill out for senderos and bily.  and with those 4 on the bench, so lets not pretend that it was patched together.

even before the second leg we had neville and moyes come out saying we wouldnt sit back on our lead and would attack.  we parked the bus and conceded 3.  could of been more.

2) as I have now said for a third time, mancini tried something and got it wrong, he thought he would easily beat those teams he played using the same tactics as he does in the premier league, and why wouldnt he there unbeaten and beat united 6-1 using these very same tactics.  im sure a lot of coaches would of done the same if they had the same calibre of players to work with, it never worked out for him, and he has learnt his lesson.  and there is a massive difference between the calibre of teams in the CL and europa league but you already know this. 

3) and the games we won most of them were against p*** poor opposition. I mean look at stoke and birmingham in this season competition.  Spurs are playing there B team and still getting results.

Dinamo bucharest, 

fiorentina-away from home were hopeless, even Cl teams who play barca dont play as bad as that

Standard liege

Benfica

Sporting lisbon

the only decent team we beat away from home was AZ alkmaar and lets not pretend like they are something special.  If you want to count wins against teams like larissa and sk brann as if that was a major achievement, they you go ahead.

OldGoldenVision said:

Benfica v Everton - October 2009

Howard

Coleman - Had joined from Sligo in January and only just come back from loan at Blackpool in the Championship

Hibbert - Played at CB 

Distin - Had only just signed for the club just over a month earlier

Gosling - A bit part player who was played in defence

Bilyaletdinov - Had only just signed for the club just over a month earlier and has since proven a flop

Cahill - Regular first teamer. No complaints there.

Fellaini - Had been with the club just over a year and it hadnt been the best of years

Rodwell - A promising 18 year old a year out of the academy

Jo - Do I need to spell out how sheet he was

Yakubu - A regular first teamer so no complaints.

Bench:

Nash

Duffy

Wallace

Akpan

Saha

Agard

Baxter

Yup, that was the bench. 

Now, a lesson in the use of speech marks: "we parked the bus and conceded 3. could have been more."  It was, we conceded 5.

Tickets = Thick

OldGoldenVision said:

You've been strung along mate. All for his private amusement and pleasure. 

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1) gosling never started any premier league games did he.  bolton, hull spurs west ham, man united, nearly all of the europa league games and league cup games that year, Gosling already played plenty of games that season, and the ones he never started he came on as a sub most of the time, so lets not pretend he was just thrown into the mix

jags was on the bench if he wasnt fit he wouldnt have made it, moyes did the same to arteta when he returned from injury

and as for no scope for tactical manouvre, on the bench we had  Jagielka,  Coleman,  Gosling,  Rodwell, Yakubu,  Anichebe,  MORE THEN ENOUGH TO WORK WITH, thats probably one of the strongest benches we had that season.  and it was just TWO yes TWO changes from the first 11 from the first leg that beat sprting 2-1,  and you refer to that as "patched up"  2 players out is patched up

2) why does mancinis experience in europe as a player come into this, roy keane was a legend in the champions league, does this mean he will make a good CL manager.  The football played back then to the football played now is completely diffferent but again you already know this.  it amazes me how much of the basics you seem to forget just to make a point.  and mancini is still a young manager, even younger then moyes, and italian league and premier league are completely different.  again basic stuff beano  the team he had at inter was also completely different, different style of play to the one he has at city, he has had to adapt quickly to playing the type of football needed to get top position in the league.

and the way city play now compared to last season is different, quite obviously as this season they are sitting nicely in first position unbeaten, having destroyed man U 6-1.  last season they wernt, again, basic stuff this,, cant beleive im having to point this out to you.

again he made an error, thinking if this team can beat united 6-1 playing this way then we can beat the like of napoli and bayern, never worked out for him.  at least now he ha learnt he has to pay a bit more respect to teams like these.

3) yes we beat zenit at home 1-0, im talking about away from.  and aek athens and az alkmaar,  give it a rest will ya are you calling these good teams .  then onto sporting we won the home leg 2-1, moyes and nevile came out and said we would attack, and we got hammered 3-0. we were at no stage  "comfortably going through", even if you take out rodwells error, we would have lost 3-2 on aggregate, no pretend games here mate.

4) was ferguson tactically naive against barca? YES.  after losing the first final, ferguson came out in the press conference and said the he knew the mistakes they made and it wouldnt happen again,  main problem being the 2 Cb's had no one to mark as front three rotated back into midfield, second champion league final comes along, low and behold the same thing happens again.

united are way off having a complete team as are chelsea, they are in transition, United are bringing through the youngsters, and chelsea have too many old players and are playing a different style of football and are suffering from loss of form, Both teams will need time to adapt and bring in the players to complete the team.  BASIC stuff beano

and as for wenger, no one is expecting to win the CL with the team he has.  along the way he has lost viera, henry, and now nasri and fabregas.

tactics is crucial in this game look at the RS, they new they couldnt stand toe to toe with europes elite, so they nicked an away goal, and then at anfield defended for their lives, this got them to 2 finals.