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A fans run club?
  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48
    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/


  • Jayee019
    Posts: 902
    There is a couple of people discussing this but in reality it will not happen. Convincing people to part wit cash in this current ecconomic world is going to be very hard.

    A plan is 200,00 people to buy one sure of an investment fund organised to own 100% of share in EFC. Buying 1 share for £1000 or multipules of could in turn create a fund of £200 million which could be used to purchase the club and streamline and invest.

    Simple idea chances of happening LOW.
  • OldGoldenVision
    Posts: 19,489
    Just wrong
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958
    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



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    You're own stupidity?
  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48
    Thanks
    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



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    You're own stupidity?

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    Thanks very much Toffeecup ....I love you too ! What did I do to deserve LARGE and BOLD font?
  • Jayee019
    Posts: 902
    He was MR negative year 2000 - 2011 hahahaa
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958
    Fozzster said:

    Thanks

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



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    You're own stupidity?

    -----------------



    Thanks very much Toffeecup ....I love you too ! What did I do to deserve LARGE and BOLD font?

    -----------------



    The bold was for the statement as a whole, including the bit about Kenwright. The large bit was underline that I was answering the question you asked.




  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48
    OldGoldenVision said:

    Just wrong


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    Wrong as in it won't work or wrong because you don't agree that it's the right for the club?..............I like the idealist idea of the fans owning the club.....but would think that a one off cash injection wouldn't solve the clubs long term needs.

  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48
    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Thanks

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



    -----------------




    You're own stupidity?

    -----------------



    Thanks very much Toffeecup ....I love you too ! What did I do to deserve LARGE and BOLD font?

    -----------------



    The bold was for the statement as a whole, including the bit about Kenwright. The large bit was underline that I was answering the question you asked.





    -----------------



    Oh I see - that clears that up then ....there was me thinking you actually had a clear and constructive point to make. Thanks for the contribution.
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958
    Fozzster said:

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Thanks

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



    -----------------




    You're own stupidity?

    -----------------



    Thanks very much Toffeecup ....I love you too ! What did I do to deserve LARGE and BOLD font?

    -----------------



    The bold was for the statement as a whole, including the bit about Kenwright. The large bit was underline that I was answering the question you asked.





    -----------------



    Oh I see - that clears that up then ....there was me thinking you actually had a clear and constructive point to make. Thanks for the contribution.

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    The point was clear.

    You are stupid because you think that Kenwright is a lair and a cheat who won't sell the club and that the fans could run it in a better way if he would. Very clear indeed.
  • sambo applecart
    Posts: 24,179
    TBF toffeecup, fozzster says 'if we forget the idea that bk is a liar/cheat etc'......he doesnt say its what he thinks, he was using that as an example imcv like lid.......
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958

    You have your opinion Sambo, I have mine.

    But given BU, and the vast majority of Everton fans. And the fans of all other premiership clubs in general for that matter. It is stupid to think that a group of fans could make it work better than the traditional ownership model.

    So much as we might disagree on the the point you raise, my point remains in any case.
  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Thanks

    ToffeeCup said:

    Fozzster said:

    Interesting take on Club ownership - this idea has been thrown about for a long while ......but is it possible? As the article points out the time might be now - how much longer can we continue to hope that a white knight on a horse full of cash is coming to save us? If we forget about the idea that BK won't allow it because he's greedy/a liar/cheat etc then what is to stop us?

    How would you go about doing such a thing?

    I'd find £1,000 - £5,000 from some-where to invest ?  What do you reckon?

    http://www.dixies60.com/2011/09/26/how-the-barca-ownership-model-might-work-for-everton/



    -----------------




    You're own stupidity?

    -----------------



    Thanks very much Toffeecup ....I love you too ! What did I do to deserve LARGE and BOLD font?

    -----------------



    The bold was for the statement as a whole, including the bit about Kenwright. The large bit was underline that I was answering the question you asked.





    -----------------



    Oh I see - that clears that up then ....there was me thinking you actually had a clear and constructive point to make. Thanks for the contribution.

    -----------------



    The point was clear.

    You are stupid because you think that Kenwright is a lair and a cheat who won't sell the club and that the fans could run it in a better way if he would. Very clear indeed.

    -----------------



    Well in that case TC - I have to apologise to you - because I obvioulsy didn't make myself clear...what I was implying there was not that "I" think (As Sambo points out) BK is a liar/cheat but that others do....I was trying to take the whole BK thing out of the conversation - so we could talk about the idea of the club being run by a fans group without the vile and unfounded nonsense spouted about BK.....once again apologies for the mis-understanding......but to add just one more point the article actually described a situation where BK would still have a sharehold in the club albeit a dilluted one.

    As for part about me being stupid..........well - that's not really the issue is it?  I don't know how to start a fans buyout group because I have never been in the situation where I've had the need to learn how to do it? Just thought maybe some one else might have an idea! 

  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958
    Fozzster... I'll apologise for using the stupid word a little too quickly.

    As you can imagine... this place has had its fair share of BU cretins calling Kenwright a long list of things....and while words such as lair, cheat, greedy are on the more tame side of things. You can imagine which end of the fan debate most people would think you were on.

    But going back to the fan ownership point. Its never happened over here and we have a national mentality of ownership in a the way that the french or spainish just don't.

    Hasn't happened in the prem and I think its fairly...erm, foolhardy... to think we'd be the club to start it.
  • Fozzster
    Posts: 48
    Fair points TC - Just a thought ......don't forget though and not wanting to sound to downbeat, but if we continue to slide financially as we are doing ....then the future does not look good....surely all alternatives need to be looked at....I would prefer a club run (or should I say owned by fans and run by an elected board)  by fans now or in the near future rather than one that is having to be picked up from the ruins and re-built by fans? .........and also lets not forget that Everton FC are a club that has a list full of football first's to it's royal blue name!!


  • OldGoldenVision
    Posts: 19,489
    Hey Fozz! I say wrong because I don't think it would work. If they did manage to find that many fans, willing to put up that much money - which I doubt - it doesn't apply a sensible valuation to the club; or consider how much cashflow there would be freed up if the debt was paid off - which I dont think would be strong enough a cashflow to purchase new players in the short or medium term.

    Eventually the new owners would look at doing what the current owners have done, which is to borrow money to make short term improvements because the fans demand new players every transfer window; and success or as close to success as can be achieved now rather than in 5 to 10 years time. Also, football is a lot harder to predict so it isnt that easy - imo - to work on a solid business plan that aims to give a return in 5 to 10 years. 

    My point is, that football is very much lived in the here and the now; and that the demand is for players and/or success now. Any owner will have to deal with that; and the way that owners deal with it is by purchasing players (usually by borrowing or selling existing players)... which is what the current owners/board are doing.

    Long and the short of it; you'd be swapping a few rich shareholders (including some toffee fans) with lots of smaller shareholders (who are Everton fans) but with no more means of taking the club forward; unless you expected them to put in another £5k, £10k or £20k a year to continue buying players???
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958
    Fozzster said:

    Fair points TC - Just a thought ......don't forget though and not wanting to sound to downbeat, but if we continue to slide financially as we are doing ....then the future does not look good....surely all alternatives need to be looked at....I would prefer a club run (or should I say owned by fans and run by an elected board)  by fans now or in the near future rather than one that is having to be picked up from the ruins and re-built by fans? .........and also lets not forget that Everton FC are a club that has a list full of football first's to it's royal blue name!!



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    I'm not sure you could say that Everton are on a downward slide financially. But if you think Everton should be able to complete at the top of the league then as those team head upwards we continue show only modest rises in turnover while our stadium prevents any serious improvement.

    Being where we are or there abouts does look like be sustainable.... but going on to break the top four is just not feasible anymore. Depends where you need the club to be. I know where I'd like it to be, but thats not going to happen just now.

    I just can't see our club being owned by its fans at all. But as firsts go, maybe a more realistic aim would be to have the first shared stadium in the premiership.




  • andyryan
    Posts: 38
    Our current situation is a better solution than a fans owned club!! Its better to have less owners so the club can be more decisive and act and respond quicker to market conditions. Can you imagine 200,000 people with £1K invested and then the club gets into debt again and all of a sudden their shares are worth £500 rather than £1k. Everyone would want out, you'd have a logistically nightmare on your hands, the costs would spiral as all the fans would want to see a return for their investment and have a say in how the club is run, nothing would ever be sorted!

    We'd be better off as a non profit organisation with a president elected by the fans every 3 or 4 years, however you'd need to get over the hurdle of how to pay off the current owners and then be faced with the same issues our current owners face! How do we raise money to invest into the club? That would be down to a top candidate for President who would also expect a hefty salary. If you get a president who could bring in millions of pounds of investment and sponsorship, keep the club from slipping into debt then it might justify a hefty salary. 
  • IhateRS
    Posts: 1,091
    So True Andy. Also imagine the scenario, Moyes leaves.. Who decides who the next manager is?
    A vote maybe? Hard to ensure that only vote per person... What else do they vote on?? What kind of coffee etc etc.. Where does it stop, how long do you get to cast your vote? Do you have a vote to decide how long you get to cast your vote?
    Add to that, what if we turn a profit, does it all go into the club? What about when someone wants to leave and the share prices are high, do they just get their 1k back etc etc and so on..
    An absolute nightmare that almost certainly wouldn't of achieved as much as Kenwright and the rest have.
    Worst still if I was a minted buyer I would want to come in and buy the club outright.. 100% of the shares. That is hard enough at the moment with several key shareholders and a lot of single share holders, I would imagine having to separately convince thousands of share holders to part with their share would be enough to put people off...
    Do we have 20000 or however many we would need people who could part with thousands of pounds  for a risk that is guaranteed to only even give you back your money if best case scenario happens?
    Add to that I would imagine both manager and players would like a boss to play for.
    Who deals with contracts of players? who decides what players we should go for,? how much to offer?.. During contract talks do we have 20000 people on line voting like furry as to what bonuses, whether to accept his demands, "ask him if he can play as winger as well as a striker".
    Nope I think I would prefer Kenwright to be honest.
  • diggernaut
    Posts: 1,195
    "You're own stupidity" !

    Yer do 'ave an 'abit of calling people stupi' on 'ere like. No' nice.

    Yer also 'ave an 'abit of adoptin' a supercillious attitude towards other posters.Also no' nice.

    Unhappiness with Kenwright did not originate with TBU which you continually infer.

    So would you pull your fooking neck in and allow others to express opinions without being subjected to your s*ite.


  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,958


    do shut up
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