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Please will someone explain to me
  • moneybags
    Posts: 98
    Why Moyes deserves a new contract. I would love it if he left and honestly cannot understand how any Everton supporter would want him to stay after this weekend but I would like to try to understand.
    Am I wrong in thinking that Moyes is much more popular with Evertonians outside of Liverpool than those living here?
  • spengler
    Posts: 2,041
    moneybags said:

    Why Moyes deserves a new contract. I would love it if he left and honestly cannot understand how any Everton supporter would want him to stay after this weekend but I would like to try to understand.
    Am I wrong in thinking that Moyes is much more popular with Evertonians outside of Liverpool than those living here?


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    its not just everton supporters outside of liverpool..its mostly supporters of other clubs that think hes the best thing since sliced bread..was speaking to some man u fans the other day at work and they thought he was the best manager in the league..wtf?????
  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    Allow me to explain:
    Although I've lost faith in Moyes, football now is all about money, and clubs like Everton (apart from Man u and Arsenal) all make an operating loss at the end of the year cos ticket sales do NOT cover wages and general expenses, so Everton depend on a shrewd manager to make extra money from player trading ie buy Lescott for 5m and sell to Man City for 20m. Buy Arteta for 2.5m from Rangers and sell to Arsenal for 10m, sell underperforming home grown players like Rodwell who cost Everton nothing for 20m to Man City. Etc etc - now do you get it.
    Moyes has this distinct talent to make money! (Although he's useless on the pitch now!!)
  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    So he deserves a new contract because he keeps Everton "in the game" and in the premisership and makes a good profit from players - simple.
    Which manager can do that in the premisership - half of them are lining their own pockets and the other half don;t need to cos the owners are so rich that they can live with the losses.
    A lot of supporters don't realise how much money he makes for the club, they just judge him on some poor performances.
  • Ivdlit
    Posts: 1,999
    No wonder everybody thinks he's doing the job, 'cause we're broke and staying up, with a squad of international players.............. other clubs with more money half of their squad isn't even international players...

    One game, and this does it? I was frustrated as well, but realised now Moyes must realise he's wrongs... 10 games to show how he's doing still.
  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    And with the profit he makes from player trading, he re-invests in new players who he develops and then sells them for a huge profit. Remember Fellaini - paid 15m for him - everyone thought Moyes had gone mad at the time, but only a month ago were praising him to Heaven when Fellaini was valued at 25m - a good profit of 10m - not bad!
    He would have made another 5m on Jelavic had he not run him into the ground!
    He's a foxy ol' Scotsman is Moyes - he can make money to keep Everton in the system!
    He buys players - develops them and sells them for a huge profit. A lot of people are doing the same thing with residential and commercial properties if you think about it.
  • bluespatch
    Posts: 333
    Moyes is nothing more than a great scout.. Can find talent for sure.... just doesnt know what to do with them once he gets them, hed by the best right winger in a lower league bags of talent..... But then play him left back
  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    Last season l remember Wigan defeating Man U in one of the last games of the season, that loss arguably cost Man U the championship - so it's not about having the best players - its about having the best players putting in their best performances week in and week out.
    Ferguson doesn't need to make money, cos he's got an 80,000 seater stadium, money pours in every 2 weeks. Moyes on the other hand has the added burden and pressure to make money AND win games - it's not easy!
  • Knoxy2001e
    Posts: 1,423
    no ifs or buts, moyes is good. its a matter of whether or not he will put up with another season of trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

    my only criticism of him is he is too cautious sometimes. his substitutions against wigan were pathetic.

    apart from that he only needs 20 mill and he says he can deliver a top four finish. he probably can. but we are in debt, losing money, have a crap stadium. and an owner who is only a millionaire not a billionaire.

    and thats what its all about: MONEY.
  • bluetouch
    Posts: 1,230
    Knoxy2001e said:

    no ifs or buts, moyes is good. its a matter of whether or not he will put up with another season of trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.


    my only criticism of him is he is too cautious sometimes. his substitutions against wigan were pathetic.

    apart from that he only needs 20 mill and he says he can deliver a top four finish. he probably can. but we are in debt, losing money, have a crap stadium. and an owner who is only a millionaire not a billionaire.

    and thats what its all about: MONEY.

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    Well said.
  • Snowcone
    Posts: 6,719
    bluetouch said:

    Well said.


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    HAHAHA!
  • Yobowannabe
    Posts: 1,991
    IMWFTBFHLFK
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,955

    People say the league table doesn't lie.Currently, every team above Everton in the league spends vast sums more than Everton.

    Moyes bests the rest overall and occasionally bests some of those above us currently.

    For this reason, and while that persists, I personally feel he should stay.

    While doing this, given the money available but in beating the odds so often he will raise expectations and when those expectations are set against bad results, which all teams have, then the situation and the reaction often feels worse.

    That said, along with an unlucky transfer window Moyes has made a number of mistakes this season. It looks as though he should have sold Fellaini... Moyes has needed to freshen things up this season and while he's hung out on players who have had big offers in the past and fought and fought again, like with Lescott for example, and its worked out well. Its not a one size fits all game. That said. he rightly pretty much drove Rodwell to city.

    But mainly it looks like he's misjudged his own contract situation this time around and its backfired badly on the team and himself. For Kevin Mirrallas to come out and mention it... and a relatively new player, a countryman of Fellaini, to speak out speaks volumes... and of course out own ageing and illustrious captain, who speaks out when asked and isn't asked for no reason.

    Just feel what he has done hasn't worked, and what he could have tried he didn't. Its not horrific, but it felt like it after Wigan. Just that this season, everything has gone against him, even the good start... which drew a lot of speculation from the media... even if enough of us had noticed that it was smattered in draws and the odd loss to teams we needed to beat to finish anywhere good.

  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    Moyes understands the business side of football but I'm afraid he doesn't take a risk now and then and is not ruthless enough.
    These are the 2 main reasons why we've had so many draws and could not finish games which we were miles ahead, Fulham, Newcastle, Liverpool and all the other draws.
    A managers personality should translate onto the pitch like Alex Ferguson, his team carries HIS message onto the pitch. Mourhino's team does the same.
    Moyes is so cautious and this message is carried onto the pitch - just look at Neville - the main carrier of his message.
    Bring on Ferguson - Duncan that is!! You'll see a different team!
  • sambo applecart
    Posts: 24,128
    watchcentre said:

    Moyes understands the business side of football but I'm afraid he doesn't take a risk now and then and is not ruthless enough.
    These are the 2 main reasons why we've had so many draws and could not finish games which we were miles ahead, Fulham, Newcastle, Liverpool and all the other draws.
    A managers personality should translate onto the pitch like Alex Ferguson, his team carries HIS message onto the pitch. Mourhino's team does the same.
    Moyes is so cautious and this message is carried onto the pitch - just look at Neville - the main carrier of his message.
    Bring on Ferguson - Duncan that is!! You'll see a different team!


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    exactly mate, he just doesn;t have the balls to say 'sorry son, its time for you to move on, we need change'....
  • twentynine
    Posts: 7
    watchcentre said:

    Allow me to explain:
    Although I've lost faith in Moyes, football now is all about money, and clubs like Everton (apart from Man u and Arsenal) all make an operating loss at the end of the year cos ticket sales do NOT cover wages and general expenses, so Everton depend on a shrewd manager to make extra money from player trading ie buy Lescott for 5m and sell to Man City for 20m. Buy Arteta for 2.5m from Rangers and sell to Arsenal for 10m, sell underperforming home grown players like Rodwell who cost Everton nothing for 20m to Man City. Etc etc - now do you get it.
    Moyes has this distinct talent to make money! (Although he's useless on the pitch now!!)


  • twentynine
    Posts: 7
    I agree with your reasons entirely...............he is very good at making extra money. It is frustrating to watch the football though...nonetheless
  • Knoxy2001e
    Posts: 1,423
    'For this reason, and while that persists, I personally feel he should stay. '

    I dont think he will stay this time. he's got nothing to gain, he doesnt need the money and certainly doesnt need the aggro and the struggle to try and turn out a team that can win something.

    same goes for BK. i guess he would love to sell up to a genuine party that actually has the money and wants EFC to do well. moyesy is lucky, he can leave.

    BK is stuck with a club that isnt in the same financial league as other clubs, and he can do nothing about it.


  • watchcentre
    Posts: 227
    Money can't always buy success - if it did Chelsea would always be top, at the end of the day it is the team formation/manager/and supporters which eventually bring success.
    Moyes is a manager like any other manager of a company - whether it's Jaguar Land Rover/ or a Travel company or a construction company, - he has to oversee the performance of his company (Everton) but eventually has to MAKE money to stay in the system first.
    Unfortunately winning games comes second, as long as costs are covered these days which must be first priority. Unfortunately Supporters will never accept this. Very few people realise how valuable Moyes actually is. He's just not ruthless enough with his own players.
  • ToffeeCup
    Posts: 2,955
    Knoxy2001e said:

    null


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    I kind of disagree. Arsenal are in mess, Liverpool are unconvincing. Who knows what will happen at Chelsea.

    It appears as though there was about 10 million that went unspent in the last window and Fellaini you would imagine will be sold in the summer.

    That is more Money than Moyes has ever seen. Heitinga will probably go too.

    The thing with Moyes is much as he doesn't always do what you'd like him to do, he also doesn't listen to the press. After being robbed by Collina and the CL dream was in tatters, every man and his dog was saying he'd taken us as far as he could and that it was time to leave.

    He has the best squad he's had pretty much. He's about to get more money than ever before too. Granted there is more stress on it than ever before but new signings and winning a few games solves that. New 5 year deal and throw everything at the domestic cups should deliver one you'd think.

    But mainly, I'm not sure he can stand not winning anything here while other lesser clubs have. The league plaudits are one thing, one thing no one in his position can point to....but he needs to win something and he deserves to.
  • Tiresias
    Posts: 105
    I've been a big fan of Moyes for a long time. He has been brilliant at bringing in talent cheaply and selling it on. No argument there. I'm sure when the Board and the bean counters in the Banks look at the p&l they're thinking - good job Davy. A club in debt staying afloat due to shrewd transfer dealings - making up for the shortfall in gate receipts v expenditure. But there's the catch. Can the fans be expected to accept never winning a trophy again? I don't think so.
    Moyes needs to have the balls to say to the Board enough is enough. We have a history and tradition that makes a mockery out of clubs like Chelsea, who crucially have the money. It drives me mad seeing so many young kids with the likes of Chelsea shirts - too young to understand the history (or lack of). Sadly it's all about "the now". My young boys know all about Everton 'cos I make sure they do. But it's gonna be hard to keep it alive if we continue drifting in this barren, trophyless manner for another 18 years.
    Moyes has brought the club a long way but there are two crucial, imperative changes needed - buy players without having to sell (though a few of the current crop should be put on their bikes) and become a more creative, adventurous manager on the pitch. The former is probably more achievable than the latter. Problem.
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