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Yak & Moyes... And Moyes & Strikers
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Posts: 3,023September 2011
You knew he'd do it, but by christ that first goal Yak scored against Arsenal was just stunning.
It was just the Yak at his best, momentary pace, awareness and cold as ice finishing. The hard work over inside a second and the Yak had slowed to a standstill by the time the ball hit the back of the net. Economy of movement in the extreme! A fame to effort ratio which few other than the Yak at a new club can muster.
He'll bang another four or five before napping on a stack of laurels the fans threw him on his glittering arrival like the lazy so and so that he is.
Not sure you can blame his failure on Moyes's man management to be honest as he did the same here when we signed him... just as he did the same at the club who we bought him off when they signed him. And so on...
But its definitely fair to say that the temperaments of Moyes and the Yak were wholly unsuited.
Liked his interview too, even if he did have a little dig at Everton. 'I'm getting an opportunity here where I didn't at Everton'... 'and I'll score goals you know' he added with a honest and almost quiet humility.
That he will... for a while.
I'm a big Moyes fan, but I have to admit I'm getting a little concerned about the way with deals with the most temperamental and confidence dependant of footballers, the strikers.
Ignoring the Yak situation for what it is, six of one and half a dozen of the other as pretty much every club he's been ats manager will tell you. Even Sven benched him to buck his ideas up in the half a season he was at Leicester!
But currently we've got one fit striker of proven premiership class. OK don't start him if you don't feel like it but to exclude Saha from the whole team (a man so prone to his mental state he believes in the witchcraft of his grandparents their knee curing leeches!) while Victor is injured and the only other recognised striker is Denis who Moyes openly admits is 'a gamble' is just very odd indead.
I mean, put him on the bench and elect not to put him on if you like. But with our situation up front, and given that the only thing more fragile that Saha's knees is his mental outlook, I just can't see how that makes any sense what so ever.
Thoughts?
MOYES IN!
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Posts: 3,297September 2011 Moyes is the one who has seen Saha train (or not train more like), he's the one who is seeing who's ready and how ready they are. If you have decided before the game that a certain person cannot be used, I don't see the point in utting him on the bench, perhaps at the expense of Vellios or Stracq or people needed to cover other positions in defense/midfield. So I'll trust the judgement of those with the eyes that have seen!
As for yak - I don't care. As you say, he'll score goals, then give up like he did at Boro and here and this time next year, if they're still in the Prem, Blackburn will be as tormented with him as we were! Perhaps sooner WHEN their manager is sacked and the new one doesn't fancy Yak! -
Posts: 190September 2011 the yak looked finished to me, but he does this at every club, he goes stale, moves on and becomes a world beater again.
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Posts: 3,023September 2011
Well, as said and Yak aside, Moyes still looks to have issues with man managing strikers to me. Either in not starting with any, making subs, or putting an arm around them and making them feel loved.
Mind you in comparative terms he does have a lot of midfield players to keep happy.
Still, as you mentioned Bluray, Yak did look finished but that finish was something else. And I was really pleased to see it. He might be bone idle, but he is what he is, and it was good to see he's still got some in the tank even if he didn't provide us with it.
Does anyone know what we got for him? I've heard about it being undisclosed or 1.5 mill....surely to god we got more than that?
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Posts: 785September 2011 No idea why we let the Yak go, or what upset Moyes with him. Simple fact was, before Vellios was being given a chance, and before the new signings, the Yak was the only striker we had who could play 4-5-1. Beckford and Saha need another striker. I still think he had a job to do, however, I can understand his wages are catastrophic.
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Posts: 2,523September 2011 I've heard £1.5m was the price, which I'm stunned at. Really would have expected maybe £5m for him. Didn't West Ham offer £3m or something when they were in for him and Moyes turned it down?
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Posts: 3,023September 2011xreyuk123 said:
No idea why we let the Yak go, or what upset Moyes with him. Simple fact was, before Vellios was being given a chance, and before the new signings, the Yak was the only striker we had who could play 4-5-1. Beckford and Saha need another striker. I still think he had a job to do, however, I can understand his wages are catastrophic.
True, Yak and Arteta combined weekly wage can't have been pretty for what they delivered over the last season or two. -
Posts: 554September 2011 I think it's a bit of a myth that Moyes can't handle strikers. Andy Johnson did well for us until he got injured, Yak got 17 goals in his first season then picked up that knee injury and then couldn't find the form or show the desire take his chances when he came back. Saha gets his chances and his the No. 1 striker in the team but his injuries stop him and like someone said before, Moyes sees him train so knows best. Mcfadden was never really good enough, Beattie was just always over weight (could be Moyes there) and Beckford produced bits of magic but also frustrated us over and over again.Overall, it's injuries that have prevented us and having a major strength in midfield and never having the cash to seriously invest in a top quality striker.
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Posts: 3,023September 2011AndyForsyth said:
I've heard £1.5m was the price, which I'm stunned at. Really would have expected maybe £5m for him. Didn't West Ham offer £3m or something when they were in for him and Moyes turned it down?
Think west ham offered 5mill...which we refused. Then they came back some while later with an offer of 4million. Refused with some bad blood in the press.
We've never got on with Gold and Sullivan to be fair. Remember the Savage saga, with Bruce going potty and that hag MD giving it the bigun too!
Really hop we got more than 1.5 though.
Might give us an idea of what we can expect:
Arteta 9 million (1 mill has gone to socidad)
Beckford 4million
Yakubu ?
Yobo (hopefully he'll sign a perm deal in jan)
Sky installment which fell the other side of the window?
Thats a lot of money in wages too!
I doubt Denis is on much, although Drenthe might be!
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Posts: 7,570September 2011 Once again, Yak who?, Arteta who?.
Anyone notice Vellios and Drenthe scored on Saturday. Answers the question really, it was only 1 day, not week in week out, thats when to post on this subject. -
Posts: 1,002September 2011himwill said:
I think it's a bit of a myth that Moyes can't handle strikers. Andy Johnson did well for us until he got injured, Yak got 17 goals in his first season then picked up that knee injury and then couldn't find the form or show the desire take his chances when he came back. Saha gets his chances and his the No. 1 striker in the team but his injuries stop him and like someone said before, Moyes sees him train so knows best. Mcfadden was never really good enough, Beattie was just always over weight (could be Moyes there) and Beckford produced bits of magic but also frustrated us over and over again.
Overall, it's injuries that have prevented us and having a major strength in midfield and never having the cash to seriously invest in a top quality striker.
AJ, Beattie and yak, 3 proven premier league strikers (look at their stats before they joined), and just a couple of years later there literally half the player they were.Dont think you can blame it all on injuries, loads of strikers get long term injuries, but then get back to their best. and with saha we knew the situation with him before he joined
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Posts: 3,023September 2011himwill said:
I think it's a bit of a myth that Moyes can't handle strikers. Andy Johnson did well for us until he got injured, Yak got 17 goals in his first season then picked up that knee injury and then couldn't find the form or show the desire take his chances when he came back. Saha gets his chances and his the No. 1 striker in the team but his injuries stop him and like someone said before, Moyes sees him train so knows best. Mcfadden was never really good enough, Beattie was just always over weight (could be Moyes there) and Beckford produced bits of magic but also frustrated us over and over again.
Overall, it's injuries that have prevented us and having a major strength in midfield and never having the cash to seriously invest in a top quality striker.
I know what your saying and I'm always defending Moyes. Just think its a little odd to start with no strikers at home. Or to go behind and take a striker off for a midfield player.
Interesting point about Beattie. He was always overweight and Moyes did pretty much tell him to sling his hook. I'm not sure Beattie and Moyes saw eye to eye either. And AJ and Moyes weren't exactly best of mates bearing in mind he was used as a super sub more often than not. Guess I'm pretty much struggling to think of a striker David Moyes has got on very well with!
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Posts: 3,023September 2011HOWIE8 said:
Once again, Yak who?, Arteta who?.
Anyone notice Vellios and Drenthe scored on Saturday. Answers the question really, it was only 1 day, not week in week out, thats when to post on this subject.
The thread is in the 'sport' section. Feel free to have a w**k over the young greek lad in an Everton thread if you wish.
Its more a thread being happy to see the yak scoring again, even if it does come with the knowledge that it won't last for long.
And wondering if Moyes has ever got on with any striker for any meaningful length of time....ever?
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Posts: 7,570September 2011 Prefer a w--k over women
Yak scoring AGAIN, when was his last one in the Prem?
NO, unless you class our new striker a striker, Cahill, then its a YES -
Posts: 554September 2011 He has said that he doesn't see Cahill as a midfielder anymore and more of a forward which makes sense seeing as everyone on here slates him on a regular basis for his distribution and offers little after his work rate and aerial prowess.
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Posts: 7,570September 2011himwill said:
He has said that he doesn't see Cahill as a midfielder anymore and more of a forward which makes sense seeing as everyone on here slates him on a regular basis for his distribution and offers little after his work rate and aerial prowess.
Your description of him sounds fantastic, should be upfront every game then. WORK RATE AND AERIAL PROWESS, the perfect Moysey No 9. -
Posts: 3,023September 2011
Himwill. good point about Moyes rating Cahill as more of a striker these days. It also sits nicely against Moyes not really seeing eye to eye with any striker he's had at Everton.
In Cahill, he looks to maybe have made a striker, that he gets on with and who supports him to the hilt, out of an attacking midfielder who as you say probably offers something different these days compared to his past and who moyes doesn't really need in midfield so much any more.
But its a truism that Moyes hasn't had a decent relationship with any striker in the way he has will all other positions. Can't help but think of his old position of centre halve has played a part in that.
And that Cahill is one of his most loyal servants, which is a real statement given his commitments to his national team given their geographical location.
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Posts: 1,091September 2011 Is this not getting on with strikers thing just guesswork though?
The only ones I can think of is having a go at Anichebe, Rooney and on his first day Radzinsky, don't think he ever had any issues with the others, doesn't seem like that sort of person to be honest.
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Posts: 3,023September 2011
I'm talking about Moyes having a good and lasting relationship with a striker at the club.
Fair enough Moyes has tended to use striker very sparingly with either a 451 or a 4141 formation for large parts of his reign which will have no doubt contributed.
But I can't name one striker who he's got on well with and who he hasn't fallen out with. Is all I'm saying, that and he seems reluctant to bank on them, regardless of if he's at home, behind or both.
I'm always very supporting of Moyes, just thought this striking issue was worth looking into. Its not like I slate the guy and generally moan about all things Everton...
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Posts: 1,091September 2011 Not having a go at you mate... just not sure I agree Saha, Mcfadden, Johnson, Vaughn, Beattie, Cambell, Ferguson, as far as I am aware, he never had a falling out with any of these and they were all happy with the manager.
It would however make a bit of sense, his opponent as a defender would always be a striker, he would always be facing and fighting strikers throughout his playing career and it is a different mentallity to stop someone creating than it is to create so its possible that he does clash, its something I have heard a few times before, I am just not sure if its based on anything.
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Posts: 3,023September 2011
I know, didn't mean it to come across like that...just wanted to mention I'm not one of the generally negative posters on here given the amount of them there is!
To be honest Moyes hasn't had a consistent striker and hasn't looked to play with more than one that often. So you can argue that most strikers would find Moyes a hard manager to get on with, just as you can understand how Moyes hasn't really taken to any either.
But he does built strong bonds with players...I just can't name one that is a striker. And I can rememeber him falling out with McFadden and Beattie. Vaughan wasn't fit enough to work out or fall out with. Ferguson upset Moyes on numerous occasions... Maybe Campbell is the best example but then he was reliant on him to keep us up and didn't have him all that long. We will see how this Saha situation unfolds...
Really hope that as our midfield settles in a bit more, that Moyes opens up a bit and trusts them and whoever he buys in jan (surely he must!) to go and get us some goals.
Not holding my breath though.
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